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Subject Topic: Ministering To Schizophrenia And Other Mental Disorders - Charles Carrin Post Reply Post New Topic
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 9:19am | IP Logged Quote Moderator

Ministering To Schizophrenia And Other Mental Disorders

Charles Carrin. Dr. Joseph Donaldson and Dr. Abiola O. Dipeolu, Psychotherapists

Years ago a Christian psychotherapist called my office and asked if I would minister to eight or ten of her worst patients. These represented a wide spectrum of mental problems. I agreed, set up the appointments, and after hanging up the phone, was angered at myself for accepting the request. I had no experience in this area and had never attempted ministry to patients suffering from schizophrenia and parallel disorders. As the therapist already knew, people battling drug addiction, alcoholism, homosexuality, and similar problems, had experienced successful deliverance under my care. It was for that reason she called. But even with wonderful accomplishments in my past there had been a consistent pattern of failure with certain others. These people seemed to achieve successful deliverance only to discover a short time later that the entire process had to be done again. They could receive freedom but could not keep it. This was the aspect that frightened me about the psychiatric patients.

One memory of failure was especially vivid; it had taken place with an older woman in a high-rise apartment building in Smolensk, Russia. As a child she and her family had narrowly escaped the Nazi massacre in the Second World War. Thousands of townspeople had been destroyed. While ministering to her the Holy Spirit came powerfully, she cooperated in every way, earnestly wanted to be set free, and demons manifested in the same pattern described in the ministry of Jesus. But all similarity with Jesus abruptly ended there. We came to an impasse that could not be breached. Some unknown obstruction prevented victory. When neighbors in the building became suspicious at the woman's strange noises, started banging on the door and threatening to call the police, I had to leave. The woman was still in bondage. And I was later told, she had undergone many previous attempts at deliverance but all of them ending in the same unsuccessful way.

A few days later on the train back to Moscow I met the woman's daughter and was told the full story of her mother's harrowing escape from the Nazi bloodbath: Moments after her family's crossing a bridge--the only way out of town--it was bombed leaving everyone else trapped in the city. The townspeople were then herded into an open field and machine-gunned to the ground. That included her relatives and friends. No one escaped. Children and elderly folks, pregnant mothers and grieving husbands, perished alike. As I rode along on the train, listening to the war-story, I was convinced that her mother's failure to receive deliverance was connected to the terror she experienced as a child.

Some may not understand what I mean by "deliverance." Thirty percent of Jesus' recorded ministry was spent in rescuing people from unclean spirits. People such as the woman in Luke 11:13 were attacked by spirits of infirmity, others by mental disorder, many more enticed into sin and immorality. Jesus gave authority over demons to the original disciples, then assured future generations, "These signs will follow those who believe. In my name they will cast out demons ...".Mark 16:17 "Deliverance" is the current name given to that ministry. I not only consider myself a "believer" and possessing authority over demons but for more than 25 years have successfully ministered deliverance to thousands of hurting people. Even so, the psychotherapist's phone call forced me to my knees for new understanding about the "pattern" of failure I had experienced.

The Holy Spirit answered, impressing me with three specific Scripture subjects and showing their application to the people's needs. Each Bible verse spoke of God's "regathering" His people. It was a wonderful revelation, one I prize to this day. The Scriptures were:

1. God's restoration of Israel to their land and to His grace: Amos 9:11-15. Romans 11:25-36.

2. The final gathering of the elect: Matthew 24:31.

3. Identification of double-minds and its cure: James 1:7

The Lord then emphasized it was always His purpose to regather His people from wherever they had been scattered.

That applied to nations, families, or individuals, who had become fragmented. Through the prophecy of Amos, God emphasized that He would make a final gathering of Jews to their mother-country. Jesus spoke of a "gathering" of God's elect and their reunion in Heaven. The Holy Spirit then applied that "regathering" principle to individuals whose minds had been scattered. It was His will that they come to complete restoration. He then cautioned me that Deliverance Ministry was only the second part of their need. Before anything else, these people needed to have their minds "called together."

I will never forget the first patient who came, a young woman who had been under psychotherapy for two years. In the first minutes of ministry the Lord showed me a picture of her as a little girl, probably four years old, hiding under an old wicker sofa with her arms and legs locked tightly into its springs and under-structure. She refused to turn loose and come out. And it would have been impossible to remove her without injury. The Lord explained, "What you are seeing is that part of her mind that is in hiding." I understood this was a visible picture of schizophrenia. The woman who was sitting in my office was--in part--still a four year-old hiding behind the sofa. In that moment, I understood the Apostle James description of a "double minded" person, James 1:8. 4:8. who is "unstable in all his ways." In the Greek text, "double minded" is translated from dipsuchos, literally, "two souls" or "two psyches". In the woman's case, two "souls" were living competitively in the same brain angrily refusing to talk to each other. In effect, one part was protecting itself from a fear which no longer existed. The other part had become amnesic to any memory of it.

The woman's need at this point was not deliverance--even though demons seemed to be rampaging. What she needed was for that hidden part of her mind to be coaxed out of hiding. This was key. Non-communicating parts needed to be reconnected. Deliverance ministry at this point might have appeared successful but she would have quickly returned to her tormented state. I remember praying desperately saying, "Lord, what do we do?!" The answer I received was to speak very lovingly, very reassuringly, to that specific part in hiding, to tell it the danger was gone, it no longer needed to hide, Jesus was now its savior and protector. I was not to command it as I would have a demon but to appeal to that tiny, frightened little girl to turn loose of the sofa and come home.

The word "home" particularly interested me. Further, I was to remind the traumatized part that no one else could fit into that empty place but it. That was its home. And it could fit no where else. It wanted to come home. It was tired of being in hiding. Tired of separation. Tired of loneliness. All those pains would end when it slipped back into place. I would then wait. Repeat the appeal. Coax it by saying, "Come on home ... you want to ... we will wait ... you don't have to rush ... but you do want to come home ... 'God has not given you the spirit of fear but of power, of love, and a sound mind.'" This process was repeated for the next two weeks. Soon afterward I received an excited phone call from the psychotherapist. She said, "I had that patient for two years and achieved nothing. You had her for two weeks and she is normal! ... I want to do what you are doing!" The good news is that all of the patients were dramatically helped or completely restored. One even sent a generous check as an expression of gratitude.

But I need to emphasize this point: We ministered deliverance successfully to these patients only after the fragmented condition of their minds had been corrected. I know now that the Russian woman could have been healed--at least dramatically helped--had she received this type of ministry. Can I explain what happened inside these patients' brains? No. Nor am I suggesting I have the cure for mental illness. I do not. Not all mental illness is spiritual in origin. There are many other potential sources. And I still experience failure. What I did worked in these cases. In addressing the question as to why Deliverance Ministry is unsuccessful in untreated schizophrenic patients, it seems that the offending spirit uses the person's mental woundedness as their consent for it to stay. Once the consent-factor has been corrected, the gap closed, the darkness dispelled, the spirit can be forced out. Until this has been done we are wasting our time in attempting deliverance.

Bethesda Hospital in Boynton Beach--my home town--later asked me to conduct weekly worship and ministry sessions to patients in their psychiatric ward. This succeeded well until a patient complained about my using the name "Jesus" and the hospital (with their personal regrets to me) was forced to cancel the practice. I am well aware that most of the psychiatric world ridicules belief in demons. My grief, however, is not with the medical field but with the corporate church which refuses to practice the teaching of Jesus! Millions of Christians needlessly suffer from long-term crises because church leadership rejects Jesus' instructions. How many pastors do you know who cast out demons? Microscopically few. On that point--controversy or not--I will yield no ground. I am nearly 75 years old, have been preaching for 56 years, and am a committed disciple of Jesus Christ. He practiced and taught deliverance. I believe it. Since my baptism and renewal in the Holy Spirit twenty-eight years ago, I have witnessed almost all of the New Testament descriptions of demonic manifestations during Deliverance Ministry. And literally thousands have been set free. It is too late to tell me the teachings of Jesus do not work. I've seen them work!

But please hear this: Deliverance Ministry is not a one-time experience. There must be follow-up with all patients. Each must be warned that deliverance can bring immediate results but the renewal of their mind is a process. One without the other is not only futile but dangerous. Jesus taught that demons return to unprotected houses. Matthew 12:44. Everyone undergoing this type of ministry must defend themselves from spiritual re-infestation. They must become active in a full-gospel church, stay in fellowship with other believers, daily nurture themselves in the Scripture, and maintain a loving relationship with the Lord. This is absolutely mandatory.

Two of my psychotherapist friends share their opinion regarding this approach to ministry.

Abiola Dipeolu, Ph.D

As a licensed psychologist for over six years and now teaching at a university, I have had experiences with patients with high recidivism rate (Pedophilia and Axis II disorders, etc.), for whom psychology seems to offer little hope. About ten years ago, I came across Brother Carrin's newsletter and through the years gleaned from its pages helpful principles of kingdom living. His teachings on "re-gathering the mind," "homecoming," and "re-infestation" appear to be God given keys of kingdom living. *Jesus talks about the keys of the kingdom. What are these keys? These are the keys that would open the doors that hitherto have been closed to difficult cases in psychology; if only we could appropriate them. Psychology does not have access to these keys because they are available only to the children of the kingdom. Until now, the doors to the kingdom have pretty much been closed to these individuals. However, with these keys, they will finally be re-gathered home to stay. *Matthew 16:19

Joseph Donaldson, Ph.D.

When Brother Carrin came to the aid of the Christian psychotherapist, he was probably unaware that many experienced and skilled psychotherapists perform as mirrors for their patients. I am a certified clinical psychotherapist practicing for seven years. When reflecting patient's verbal and nonverbal behaviors; some improve dramatically in therapy. However, when one considers severe mental disorders such as Schizophrenia, Multiple Personality (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder), and others, facilitating positive change can be quite elusive. What brother Carrin describes with concepts such as "re-gathering the mind," preventing re-infestation, and "homecoming" goes a step further. During his work with the therapist's patients, he was able to mirror the Holy Spirit. Essentially, Brother Carrin found a way for the Holy Spirit to confront the person's mental and emotional demons which resulted in their not only being healed, but delivered, and eventually freed.

Personal note; because of my travel schedule I am no longer available for private ministry. If you need help, take this information to your pastor and ask his aid. If he refuses, ask him again. Should he continue to decline, find some true believer who will come to your rescue. Most importantly, remember that you, as a believer, can minister to others. For further information, visit my website at www.CharlesCarrinMinistries.com and read related articles linked to the home page entitled "Deliverance Ministry". God bless you! Get free and stay free!&#xF05FÉŌÉŌ

Charles Carrin

www.charlescarrinministries.com/



Edited by Ron McGatlin on 12/16/2011 at 1:37pm
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 9:48am | IP Logged Quote Guests

When You encounter Schizophrenia, Multiple Personality Disorder and other forms of Deep Neurosis and Psychosis - there is a tendency among Clinicians to treat Brain Chemisty Imbalance and Dysfunction and to attribute Perceptual and Behavioural aberrance to these factors.

I believe that we have to simultaneously minister to the whole person - Body [Brain Chemistry Imbalances and other Body Chemistry Imbalances], Soul [Mind, (the Rational Intellect, Imagination, Memory), Will (Volition and Inclination) and Emotions] or Psyche trauma [woundedness] and the Spirit [Communion, Conscience, Intuition] - Spiritual Trauma [a wounded spirit, a broken spirit and/or adefiled spirit though demonic activity].

From my reading of the ministry of Charles Carrin - He is dealing with the relationship between trauma/traumatic event/human perceptual coping mechanisms and the invasive and intrusive presence of demonic entites - gaining access through the traumatic event and the human responses.

Certainly in MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) - the alternate or sub-personalities created as coping strategies to trauma can act as gates or bridges for demonic agencies and demonisation.

However, the impact on the Human Spirit of traumatic encounter, the possibility of perceptual dysfunction to the Human Soul or Psyche of traumatic encounter and the need to understand more about behavioural dysfunction arising from Brain/Body Chemisty Imbalance - mandates us to have a ministry which ties together Deliverance/Christian Counselling [Word and Spirit] and Physical Healing.

Some of His work on Regathering the Mind - through a prophetic reading of scripture and his applied experimental/experiential theology is excellent and quite clearly is seen as a powerful series of instruments in spiritual warfare/deliverance and psychotherapeutic encounter - I absolutely and unconditionally endorse and support His Ministry.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/23/2005 at 10:00am
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 10:11am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Hello all,

I hope to read this very long article bit by bit, later on. As one who has been freed entirely, over a process of time, from the psychiatric ailment known as bipolar disorder (then called "manic-depression"), I am understandably interested in the subject.

Mark, as you said, it involves the whole being -- the spirit, soul, body -- every part of me needed deliverance and healing. There were many aspects to my healing and deliverance, and it took a long time for it to be accomplished, as in years. It also took a lot of people in order for this to happen.

Later, I hope to find the time to read through this whole article.

Blessings to all. Yes, there is whole for those with psychiatric diagnoses. God is no respecter of persons. What He has done for one (me, in this case), He can do for another. One other thing I'd like to mention, however, is that the person has to really want the help, and be willing to participate and cooperate through the process -- and to trust in the Lord completely.

Love,

Ann



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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 7:16pm | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Well, I finally had time and got around to reading the entire article.

What helped me in my own deliverance was a book entitled "Moodswing" by Dr. Fieve. I can't say it was a Christian book (it might have been), but it gave me many helpful tools. It gave me the understanding that I needed as to why I self-treated myself with drugs. Dr. Fieve said that many people do this, in an effort to control the moodswings. I recall having done that as well. I took "uppers" when I was low and "downers" when I got too high.

He also said that schizophrenia and manic-depression are hard to tell apart sometimes.

There seems to be such a need for deliverance (as in casting out demons) and so few are doing it (including myself). I can at times look someone in their eyes and see (or sense) demons in them, but have been at a loss as to what to do about it.

Ann



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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 3:56am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Ann

Your acute observations are very interesting - the use of drugs to stabilise the mood swings in bipolar disorder or manic depression is the treatment of the physical and perceived brain chemistry issues and not an engagement of the deeper perceptual and spiritual root issues.

The reason that comparisons are readily drawn between schizophrenia (a psychotic state) and manic depression (a neurotic state) is that they both demonstrate significant behavioural shifts.

If we treat Manic Depression as a psychiatric ailment, we are effectively treating this as a physical condition to be stabilised through the use of drugs  - a coping strategy - You are a neurotic and these drugs will help you be better neurotic - but the neurosis still remains.

I still advocate a multiple engagement in each and every case - where we explore the spiritual, the perceptual and physical issues simultaneously - through discernment, prayer, interviews, words of knowledge and prophetic disclosure and begin to map out the personal history and the alignment of root causes in the pursuit of effective ministry and personal wholeness - we have to move from coping strategies to transformative encounters.

Every psychological condition and description of that condition - Extroversion, Introversion, Projection, Transference, Counter-Transference and I am dealing with technical neurotic categories for the moment - can traced to impacted encounters on the Human Spirit and the reaction of the Human Spirit to those events.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/24/2005 at 4:05am
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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 8:03am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Mark,

If you read both posts I wrote here, you'll see that I agreed with you on the need for treating every part of a person's being. The second post was about a book that gave me the understanding for what I had done prior to being saved; namely, my having treated myself with drugs to control the moodswings.

When I said that the book "Moodswing" helped me, it did. It helped me understand better why I had taken drugs. I don't know that what I had (past tense) could have been considered neurosis as opposed to psychosis. I was pretty far out there, and hospitalized 5 times that I can recall.

Blessings to you today.

Ann



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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 8:11am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Ann

Thank you for such open and mature sharing - the difference between psychosis and neurosis is one of rational enablement and coherence.

In states of deep neurosis which border on clinical depression and possible suicidal tendencies - temporary Hospitalisation can occur to stabilise perception, behaviour and social interaction.

Psychosis is a very different matter - without clincial stabilisation and sympton suppression through the intensive use of drugs - some form of compulsory admission to Hospital or a specialist psychiatric unit would be inevitable.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/24/2005 at 8:22am
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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 8:25am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Mark,

I was definitely forcibly incarcerated, at times. Other times, I checked myself in. Once, they strapped me down, in 5 point restraints, and injected medication into me (when I refused it).

While in that position, I thought of being like Jesus on the cross -- the 5 points where He was wounded. By then, I was already born again, yet in much need of deliverance, which praise God, I did receive -- over a very long period of time.

The first trip to a mental hospital, I was in such a state of psychosis (I think that's what it was called) that I don't remember anything for several days. Another patient told me that they'd told her if I didn't come out of it in 5 days, I'd be like that (a vegetable) for the rest of my life. So, she began to sing to me. The first thing I remember was when they stuck me with a needle to draw blood. Then, I came to.

I was declared incurable insane. They said I'd be on medication for the rest of my life. That first trip to the mental institution was in July 1978. On November 30, 1979, I invited Jesus into my life. In January 1983, I was totally freed from ALL psychotropic medication, and never took it again.

It is interesting to note that I was freed from meds BEFORE I was delivered from demons. Some deliverance may have taken place by then, but they were still "in there." My freedom came by faith. I heard the voice of Jesus telling me I was healed.

I sought the Lord for a Christian psychiatrist who would agree with me for my healing, and was led to one. When I first saw him, he told me I was doing right in weaning myself off the meds. After a very few weeks (3-4), I was totally off them.

Faith in God that He wanted me healed is what did it. I had to learn that I couldn't tell people what I was doing -- until after it was done. That, in itself, was quite a challenge for one who had been a "talkaholic." This term, I made up to describe what I had been -- again, past tense.

Staying in God's word day and night can work wonders in a person's life!

Ann 



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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 8:40am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Ann

I have given your case history some very careful reflection.

Quote:
Definition of Psychotropic medication

Psychotropic medication: Any medication capable of affecting the mind, emotions, and behavior. Some medications such as lithium, which may be used to treat depression, are psychotropic. Also called a psychodynamic medication.

From the Greek psycho-, the mind + trop, a turning = (capable of) turning the mind.

I suspect that you had an induced state of apparent psychosis expressed as bipolar dysfunction or manic depression because of the impact of the demonic forces on your spirit - working its way out in perceptual dysfunction and to some extent brain chemistry imbalance and dietary impairment.

The point You asked Jesus into your Life was the point You entered your Canaanthe squatters still had to be driven out - but the healing had begun.

What I find interesting and this is important is that You retained the capacity for rational volition and choice which is not the case in intense psychosis.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/24/2005 at 8:41am

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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 8:50am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Hi Mark,

You said that I retained the capacity for rational volition and choice. Not always. As I said, when this first happened (and there were other times as well), in July 1978, I was totally out of it (as in a blackout) for several days. I was picked up by the police in San Francisco (I don't remember this, but I do remember being in the back of a police car on the Bay Bridge) and taken to Highland Hospital in Oakland. I remember walking up the ramp there, and then waking up several days later in Napa State Hospital.

I had many blackouts. In those times, I certainly was not capable of making rational choices.

It was lithium that they had me on, as well as many other medications. The diagnosis of manic-depression was made prior to my salvation. As you said, once Jesus was in there with me, He began kicking out the squatters. Especially as I read the Bible and prayed.

Ann



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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 9:00am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Ann

What I am about to say is very important - the blackouts - are a well reported and noted symptom of intense demonisation.

The reason it is expressed in this way is that they effectively place your spirit under seige and disrupt the interconnectedness between your spirit and the perceptual systems of your mind and the physical neural pathways and receptors in your brain - this is an acute expression of being under a spell - literally you are placed in a trance state - where you become dislocated from external stimulii and the capacity to engage in thought or connect with bodily sensation.

The interesting thing is that the demonic forces did not appear able to hold you in a permanent state of suspension but could do so for periods and when you surfaced You retained the capacity for rational decision making and the capacity to exercise choice- YOU CHOSE TO FOLLOW JESUS.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/24/2005 at 9:01am
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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 9:17am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Mark,

There were people praying for me. That woman who took an interest in me, and sang to me, in the mental hospital was a Christian. She, too, was a patient there. We were in touch with each other for awhile, but I lost contact with her years ago.

The first blackouts I had were when I was drunk (former alcoholic), probably in my 20s. I became so intoxicated at times that I would drive somewhere and wake up somewhere, not knowing how I got there. Pretty dangerous, eh? Not only for me, but for all the others drivers on the road.

Again, someone had to have been praying for me. I kept trying to join groups of people, but they wouldn't let me. One of them was a hippie boyfriend, who told me that I didn't belong there. He didn't know where I belonged, but not there.

I wanted to join in with some other friends, who claimed to be witches and warlocks, but they wouldn't let me, either. Someone had to have been praying. There were other things I wanted to do, but couldn't do, too.

I think of Proverbs 29:18 from the NIV, I think. The KJV basically says, "Where there is no vision, the people perish," but the NIV says, "Where there is no redemptive revelation, the people cast off restraint."

That's what I was doing. I was casting off restraint. I did whatever I wanted to do. And, I paid dearly for it, for years.

Intense demonization? Yes. I had lots of demons that needed to be driven out. Then, I had to stay in the word and prayer, to keep them out. Certainly didn't want 7 times worse coming in. The original ones were bad enough :)

Love,

Ann



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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 9:10pm | IP Logged Quote Denise Detwiler

The interesting thing with my sister, who has a very severe case of paranoid schizophrenia which has been medically diagnosed in a reputable psychiatric hospital....is that they did locate the brain damage which is the source of the 'short circuiting' in her brain.  In fact in addition to the severe psychosis she was also having seizures resulting in psychotic episodes from this damage.  However as they ran every imaginable test they could not detect the source of the brain damage.

It was a part of a very dark night of my own soul when this illness emerged in my younger sister who was a top student and headed for a brilliant education and career.  I cannot begin to comprehend what it has done in her own life and because of the illness hearing from her on it is not possible.  The drugs only help so far. 

Many continue to pray for her today. 

I am in total agreement with you, Mark and Ann that Jesus' ministry is to the whole person as it has always been.  And it's the whole person that needs it, not just bits and pieces of the person.  Humans are complex beings with all parts of us interconnected.  And then we are connected with one another.

Ann's story is a huge encouragement to me and I have heard many other stories as well over the years, and have had the priveledge to see some unfold and am also watching some unfold before me too!  Every case has been quite unique and original for each person.  Even as we see reflected in the gospel accounts.

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Posted: 08/25/2005 at 8:44am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

DD,

The part of a person that I see so neglected to be ministered to is their "will." In order for me to get free, I had to have had my will restored. The same is true for your sister. The old saying is that "when there is a will, there is a way," is so true.

We want something intensely for another person. But, they, too, have to want it for themselves. Not just say, "yeah, whatever," or think "whatever God wants is okay." That doesn't work in these cases. Your sister, and others with mental disorders, have to be determined to get free!

And, for me, I had to know God's voice, and follow Him throughout the whole process. If I had simply listened to the county-appointed psychiatrist, I probably would have been dead by now -- as he continued to increase my medication. In reading something later, if I'm not mistaken, what I was being given was a lethal dosage of lithium. Maybe Mark could help me with this. I was on 2400 mg of lithium per day. The standard dose is 900-1200 mg.

So, what I'm saying, is to pray for her will AND for her to KNOW God's voice. Pray that she will be determined to get free! Pray for the right, anointed laborers to be sent across her path.

I, too, had a very high IQ. Many in mental hospitals do have that "problem."

Pray for her willingness to submit to deliverance, and for the right deliverance minister to be sent across her path. There are so few qualified in this area, and so much need.

Ann



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Posted: 08/25/2005 at 8:54am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Ann

You were being given an extreme dose of Lithium because they were effectively trying to break your will - what kept You on your feet was the Word of God - in the final analysis they were contending with Him.

Psychiatry has a tendency to try to remake the world in its own image through the use of drugs. 

The Lord has a word for you Ann, and it is this:

Quote:
Romans 4:18 (Moffat's Translation) ". . .when  all hope was gone, she hoped on in faith . . ."

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/25/2005 at 9:04am
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Ann Doupont
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Posted: 08/25/2005 at 10:00am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Aww, thanks Mark. There's an old song (of the world) I used to sing. It's called "The Impossible Dream."

Daring to try to do it or die...

And, another spoke of, "I traveled on when hope was gone to find my rendezvous."

Some of the songs I sang, even though not Christian ones, really helped. Others, really hindered.

Ann



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Posted: 08/29/2005 at 8:23pm | IP Logged Quote mary horne

Hello Ann, I am so glad you posted what has happened to you. I have a friend who has been in and out of the mental hospital for several years. She is now being given shock treatments. She hears voices and will cut her self with a knife or razor blade. She is on many different medications and none seem to help. She was raised in a spirit filled home and even spoken in tongues herself. Her brother-in-law is pastor of a church,her brother whorship leader. She attends a different church than her family. She is a big boned girl and always played sports in school. She was always made fun of because she looked like a boy. When her school played other schools they would question if she was a boy dressed as a girl. From the side lines people would shout insults at her.Her only sister is a very pretty woman and she wanted to be like her.She is married now but that only seemed to make matters worse.

Ann or Mark if you have any advise as to what we need to do for her please feel free to say so. Her parents have tried everything and are devastated. She will not allow her brother-in-law lay hands on her and pray.

Again Ann thank you for shareing your life that others might find help, I know it took courage to do so. May Gods mighty hand be upon you and richly bless and keep ypu.

Mary



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Posted: 08/29/2005 at 8:58pm | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Hi Mary,

Thanks for sharing. For me to share my story is a joy. I don't see that it takes any special courage. It's what God has me do, or one of the things.

The first thing that came to mind as I read about your friend's desire to cut herself was that it's some sort of curse that needs to be broken. Perhaps even a generational curse. I don't think that there has to have had the same EXACT situation in a family line for it to be a generational curse. For example, a parent could smoke cigarettes. The child might drink alcohol, and the grandchild might get into drugs. From what I understand, it's progressive, getting worse with each generation.

The sins of the parents are passed down to the 3rd & 4th generation. Pray that she be forgiven (not held responsible) for the sins of her parents and foreparents.

You will need discernment (which only comes from God) as to the specific demons you're dealing with. Simply ask Him, and believe Him to tell you. There's a verse in the NT that says that these kind only come out by prayer and fasting. You could fast and pray for a day or two.

At the beginning of the fast, decree out loud the purpose of the fast; such as, "Lord, I'm fasting for the purpose of getting this person free from these mental problems." Then, begin praying in tongues (I hope you speak in tongues). After you feel a release from having prayed in tongues (whether it be for 5 minutes or an hour, or whatever), ask the Lord what you need to pray in the understanding.

Part of my freedom was most likely from having fasted. I fasted for another purpose, but nevertheless I fasted. I went on a 5-day fast, not knowing that you're not to go on long fasts while on heavy medication. I ended it 1/2 day early, as I went into convulsions. Asking God what to do, He said, "Eat now!" which I did, and the convulsions stopped.

Since your friend is incapable of doing these things for herself, it would take a caring individual to do them for her. Shock treatments are really bad, from what I hear. They can do permanent damage. I'd pray her off them, first of all. Pray that they use a different treatment.

Not everyone who speaks in tongues is speaking as from the Lord. There are some who aren't saved, but have spoken in tongues (by another spirit). So, discernment is going to be key for you in her deliverance.

What you might also pray is for the right anointed laborer(s) to be sent across her path. I do this when I don't know how to minister to a person's needs. The laborer could come in the form of a book, a TV ministry, in person, a tape, or other things. Just trust that God hears you when you pray, and know that He loves your friend. He desires good things for her, and doesn't want her to hurt herself.

That's something you could also pray. Pray that she loses the desire to hurt herself. Pray that she knows how much God loves her. Pray His will to be done in her life. Pray that God tells you what she needs, and what it is that you should pray for her. Then, pray that, and you'll see a miracle!

Love,

Ann



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Posted: 08/30/2005 at 12:39am | IP Logged Quote Guests

mary horne wrote:

Hello Ann, I am so glad you posted what has happened to you. I have a friend who has been in and out of the mental hospital for several years. She is now being given shock treatments. She hears voices and will cut her self with a knife or razor blade. She is on many different medications and none seem to help. She was raised in a spirit filled home and even spoken in tongues herself. Her brother-in-law is pastor of a church,her brother whorship leader. She attends a different church than her family. She is a big boned girl and always played sports in school. She was always made fun of because she looked like a boy. When her school played other schools they would question if she was a boy dressed as a girl. From the side lines people would shout insults at her.Her only sister is a very pretty woman and she wanted to be like her.She is married now but that only seemed to make matters worse.

Ann or Mark if you have any advise as to what we need to do for her please feel free to say so. Her parents have tried everything and are devastated. She will not allow her brother-in-law lay hands on her and pray.

Again Ann thank you for shareing your life that others might find help, I know it took courage to do so. May Gods mighty hand be upon you and richly bless and keep ypu.

Mary

Mary

Hi.  I have read through the notes you have posted.  Your friend has been diagnosed as suffering from acute shizophrenia with auditory [hearing] hallucinations.

If it were simply a case of auditory hallucinations I might be tempted to explore physical and perceptual issues although with the reported desire to self-harm [self mutilate] and my knowledge of other cases and the specific background factors in this case, I am certain this is a demonisation issue.

How we take this forward requires some reflection - there are issues of identity, rejection, low self image, self hatred - the decision by her family to pursue psychiatric intervention rather than deliverance from evil spirits suggests at root there is a lack of understanding of demonisation and how to respond effectively.

The years of psychiatric treatment will have embedded the perception in her own mind that her medication is being used to stabilise her condition,although the use of electro-convulsive therapy (ECT) is an extreme treatment as it effectively simulates a form of controlled seizure and is an attempt at brain chemistry adjustment.

Ann has shared some reflections on the problem of generational curses and that in this case we are dealing with a curse - this seems a very useful thought as generational curses are a well known entry point for demonisation.  However, I think the trigger was parental rejection.

I find it interesting that she is able to attend a church - this suggests she retains a degree of conscious volition - and demonisation is to some extent a consensual process - it also places a question mark over the spiritual condition of the Church she is attending [I am saying this on the basis that we are dealing with demonisation  and they will usually react to the presence of the Holy Spirit and spirit filled christians covered by the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You say she has spoken in tongues - now either this was a counterfeit tongues [satanic in origin] or she has received the Holy Spirit at some point.

Demonisation in Christians is a complex issue and not helped by wild conjecture - however, as you know we can have strongholds in our lives which we have not surrended to the ministering healing of the Spirit and we may further have severely limited his ability to minister into our lives.

Given the issue of parental rejection there will be issues of a dysfunctional family and unforgiveness.

I am assuming your friend is a grown woman and has left the family home - sufferes from bouts of intense depression in addition to the acute schizophrenia diagnosis and has a fascination with death.

OK.  All the advice Ann has given is excellent.

This is not just going to be a deliverance issue, but an issue of forgiveness and healing of the past.

Does your friend live alone?

In this type of scenario,there needs to be dedicated prayer and fasting, the consecration and cleansing of her home and the daily use of BLOOD SCRIPTURES AND PRAYERS and the involvement of an intelligent ministry skilled in deliverance and counselling and support/recovery.

There are other things I could suggest such as placing cloths and scripture notes people have prayed over under her pillow at night - but the key is going to be a dedicated support group -this is going to involve prayer and fasting- in setting her free and then dealing with the human issues.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/30/2005 at 12:45am
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Posted: 08/30/2005 at 7:21am | IP Logged Quote Guests

 Whew, you all. This is just what the doctor ordered, for me anyway. By that I mean Doctor Jesus. I have been away for a while from Open heaven because of family crisis, but I am back again, and I know this is something that I have been praying about for a long long time. Jackie I am praying for Raju and I know the Lord has it all under His control. What a work you are doing for Him, remember you are helping someones son, and someone will be led to help your son, Amen. How is your precious son doing anyway, and your precious daughter also. I will contact you soon by email. I love you  

 

Dear  Ann I direct this to you, my dear sister in the Lord. I know what you went through as you have described me to a tee. I ws even on the same medicine Lithium. I thank God for my Jesus. I have been there and done that, and he brought me up out of the pit and from the miry clay, He set my feet upon the rock Christ Jesus, who establishes my way. He healed me about 35 years ago, and I have been free in Him. I take care of my son Mario who has been diagnosed as being brain damaged and schitzophrenic and is on 2 of those psychotropic drugs. My son is saved I know this, and he sings his favorite song, which is, I keep falling in love with Him over and over and over and over again. He is now 45 years old and I have started to cut down his meds and I am praying. DD knows my situation as I have been praying for her sister since I heard she had the same problem.  My sons favorite scripture is I can do all things through Christ who empowers me. I  have been training him up in the ways of the Lord, and he understands a whole lot. Many years ago he was so violent that they had to put him into the state mental hospital, today he exudes the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, and peace. He loves everybody and is always hugging everybody. It is a beautiful thing to see. I believe he is having at times a side effect from these meds, and I am praying to my Father to show me how to either wean him off of them, or cut down on them. I believe these meds do more harm than good. I know my son is born again, and I believe these meds are hindering the work of the Lord in him. I know what my father has shown me concerning my son and I am awaiting the day. The father told me years ago this,  He said one day MY SON shall come out of your son, all is well. This was when I was going through one of the worst days in my life. Isn't He wonderful. He knows what we all need. Thank you so much Ann for sharing with us what you have been through, He is Lord and His will will be done in our ives and His Kingdom will come in our lives. Be blessed all of you, and I never cease to stop praying for you all. I love you in Jesus,  His bride eternally, Marie

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Ann Doupont
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Posted: 08/30/2005 at 10:14am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Wow, Marie, Thanks for sharing. From what I've heard, having been healed like you and I have been is indeed rare. PTL for it.

What came to me for your son as I read was that he needs to soak in God's Word, specifically healing verses. These can be recorded and played over & over, or just put on paper and read aloud over & over (as faith comes by HEARING and hearing by the Word of God). I attribute much of my healing to having done this.

There were other factors involved, such as proper diet and adequate water, and much, much prayer (not only by me, but by many others).

I don't know if I shared this earlier, but yesterday I thought that perhaps some of the physical symptoms I've been suffering are the residual effects from the disease. Then, I did some research and found out that the symptoms I have are indeed those from the ailment. I no longer have the ailment, but apparently have some residuals from it. I'm now believing God to heal these as well.

Blessings to you, sister.

With love,

Ann



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Posted: 05/10/2011 at 9:36am | IP Logged Quote Ruth Gan

Hello Ann and Mark,

I am a psychiatric patient myself, diagnosed with bipolar
and currently walking out a deliverance and inner healing
sessions with my prayer minister. I can relate with
having a scattered and a fragmented mind and during
prayer, my minister has been encouraging my 'parts' to
reintegrate. I also had to go through a lot of
forgiveness and healing for trauma and wounding in the
womb - most specifically for rejection. Demons were
already sent out..

Now the problem I am going through right now is how were
you able to get your will restored? I still have
difficulty committing to anything.. my will is not yet
restored and sometimes I would apply for jobs but my mind
would rebel against me.. it is as if my years of training
and experience would just get wiped out and I really
could not access parts of my mind. Did you have similar
experiences? How were you able to heal from that?

I had considerable healing a couple of years ago, but
mysteriously my symptoms returned. I am at a loss because
I attend a church that flows in the River of God and
sustain private time with Him. It almost seems like a
never ending uphill battle

I've had plenty of prayer ministry and deliverance
sessions too... I'm no longer angry or agitated bu
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Posted: 05/10/2011 at 9:45am | IP Logged Quote Ruth Gan

..but I have to retain medications so that I would keep
moods at bay. I have gone for generational prayer and
home cleansing also..

but a considerable part of me is still disengaged and
isolated.

Any other tips on the healing process? I'm particularly
interested, ann will you be able to say that you have
your whole mind back?

Thanks
RG

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Posted: 05/12/2011 at 12:59am | IP Logged Quote Monika Schmid

Ruth, welcome at OH  !

First question: did you accept that there are different personality with maybe very different gifts and desires?

This accepting is the fundament to become healed from fragmentation.

(You may have maybe discovered some facts, talents, desires in your life that does not line up with "christianity?)

Go on boldly in your healing and restoration bc your victory is near.

Second question: Did you ask Father for restoration for every fact/part/ in your life?

Example: You were delivered and healed from discouragement: ask for BOLDNESS and COURAGE from Holy Spirit.

You were healed and delivered from despair: ask for HOPE.

Your will can be restored in submitting all life circumstances under GOD's WILL. This is a very practical part of your restoration process and sometimes it can be hard.

A wounded (and fragmented) will has its own way to rebell and you should ask God Father if it is really rebellion.

I suppose that it is more a strong feeling of "not being at ease" with the new and the underlaying desire to "switch".

Your restored personality needs time for adjusting with all the new impressions.

I bless you with perseverance and boldness before the Throne of Grace to constantly ask for your healing, deliverance and restoration process.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 

Monika

beth-nitzachon@bluewin.ch

 

 



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Posted: 05/12/2011 at 7:21am | IP Logged Quote Brenda Deese

I haven't read the other posts yet but the OP is just an awesome article concerning this ministry area:
- especially The Lord revealing that inner healing (the regathering, minds called together) is needed and that it's taken care of in an entirely different way. 
-Plus the component of maintaining deliverance. 

Though I think everyone, or almost everyone, needs some type of inner healing. 

Just an excellent article.




Edited by Brenda Deese on 05/12/2011 at 8:39am
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Posted: 05/12/2011 at 5:34pm | IP Logged Quote Ruth Gan

Thanks Monika for the practical advice. :-) Bless you
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Posted: 05/13/2011 at 2:00pm | IP Logged Quote Monika Schmid

 

You are welcome, Ruth

Here a helpful biblical insight:

http://www.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=36576&a mp;PN=1

"Get a hold of your miracle today " by Maryam Ziadat

Monika

 

 



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Posted: 05/14/2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged Quote Pamela Susette

wow this article is very interesting and it has help me to understand things better.

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Posted: 07/03/2011 at 4:51am | IP Logged Quote David Hood

I donít know if you have ever considered this in terms of mental illness

But consider this scene

Mat 26:37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

Mat 26:38 My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death:

Note even unto DEATH

The fullest measure of consequence

Mar 14:33 And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;

Note sore amazed - 1) to throw into terror or amazement

a) to alarm thoroughly, to terrify - terrifying, dreadful

2) to be struck with amazement

a) to be thoroughly amazed, astounded

b) to be struck with terror

Mar 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Agony -

a struggle for victory

a) gymnastic exercise, wrestling

2) of severe mental struggles and emotions, agony, anguish

Gen 4:10

The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.

These feelings here are real to man, real to Jesus and as such His experience shares in yours even at the highest to the least point upon any and all scale.

Not only that - these have been taken into the very extreme into the realm of death, through His own body of flesh, which means YOUR body of flesh and the power of its PARTICULAR afflictions obliterated IN death.

Because He lives - you also shall live - you also live.

The characteristics of this intense scene, happened FOR YOU - FOR ME - FOR ALL Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. And I state - carries them all the days of new, now - new every morning are his promises... Which depicts the scene of a new infant, starting from now. The place of his /your new birth to life

Just as he himself had need, Fathers angels ministered to him - they minister to you NOW - they did so at the start of his walkLuk 2:13 , in the midst of his walk Luk 22:43 and will be there at the end of this particular walk and trial. Mat 4:11

Mental illness has many different guises and clothes. Ranging from anguish, terror, fear that obliterates, isolation, agony of soul and indecisiveness, internal crisis and unimaginable stress, distressing and disabling, that grips with terrifying paralysis and reality. Utter inconsolable anguish of soul and turmoil in being, inescapable with its vice of darkness

Yet - n 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again.
Jhn 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

These feeling in this our humanity and reality, touched and tore trampled upon the very soul of our saviour. He suffered as us, he suffered for us, he suffered and SUFFERS with us today. He was and is touched by the feelings that infirm.

Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. Hbr 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. - or - if they cannot themselves - we can come to Him who lives forever to interceded for both them, us and Gods pain for us.

He has gone through the curtain of mans flesh, in HIS OWN flesh that is OUR flesh - and in HIS flesh destroyed the dividing barrier through which the destroyer destroys - and proclaims HIS victory for us over the destroyer himself.

He has taken whilst as you ON earth, in his OWN humanity, everything that dehumanises you whilst IN your body, in your soul, in your very spirit , in your very MIND. An in taking it into Himself, takes his and our self UP ON TO THAT CROSS through the portal of the gardens suffering. And died for it and with it that you and I may be without it consequences and effects, here today. Not without in terms of it never occurring, but when it occurs, the potential of its overcoming is present to us through Him.

Not only that, but many sufferers know, that whilst under duress of our feeling and situations, we do things, without excuse that defend and seek to diminish and defuse our time bomb. Yet the glorious fact is that FOR us HE triumphed whilst AS us - for He did not sin, therefore paying the price of our attempts to escape any second of trauma. Therefore keeping for us that we seemingly cant or donít keep for ourselves.

And by faith, He releases us through understanding of much of its penalty and consequence, should we ourselves, or we on behalf of others, seek that benefit.

Unto death - he has gone through - He is watching you through - He is seeing you through

I have suffered off and on with depression and anxiety for 10 years or so. My wife even more severely for 20 I would say. Very recently whilst in a down phase that seemed more prolonged and severe than normally experienced. A minister simply pointed out to me, that these manifestations of illness, were faced and broached at Gethsemane.

As I applied THIS cross of Jesus to these issues, claiming identification with them through Christ on behalf of my wife, and where and if necessary unlocking that which locks into her and releasing that which is unreleased. And bringing healing slave through Christís own wounds Himself.

Within a day - she was better.

Now I appreciate that this may speak to some situations, and to others maybe not - but there is a way - for the cross does not have a dead saviour - our Lamb is healed and alive and in heaven - which means father healed his son - and raised him from THAT YOUR DEAD PLACE - Jesus said to Martha at the grave of Lazarus (the place of death) - if you believe you will see the glory of God.

Because He lives, you to shall live.

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Posted: 07/03/2011 at 5:57am | IP Logged Quote Ruth Gan

Thank you brother for your encouraging word
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Posted: 05/26/2012 at 2:04am | IP Logged Quote Julie Gilbert

Bill Johnson from Bethel Church in Redding, CA made an announcement recently that God had told them as a body, they would be ministering healing to those with mental illnesses and God was going to heal them which suffer...

we are coming into the days of His power and glory... prepare!!

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See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you. Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See I am doing a new thing
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