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Posted: 07/02/2005 at 4:08pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

I would like to discuss spiritual Mantles and those who are called to wear them - Us, the Church.

A Mantle is basically interchangeable with God's Presence/Spirit.


2 Kings 2: 12 - 14


Quote:
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.



This is a prophetic enactment of coming into God's presence and prefigures the Temple Curtain being torn in two.



Quote:

13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan



He took up his ministry and office - the Jordan symbolises:

1. Sacramental Ordination.

2. Baptism and Anointing.

3. Transition and the sense of crossing over.


Quote:

14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.



In smiting the waters - the mantle was revealed to be an instrument of transferred and prophetic/symbolic Spiritual Power - again the parting symbolises crossing over into purpose, calling, ministry, appointment.

Elijah threw his mantle over Elisha - again prophetic/symbolic enactment of calling, anointing, conferment of authority - Elisha has a family business, with twelve hired men ploughing in a line with teams of oxen - he is prosperous and successful - this peripatetic wildman comes up and throws his mantle around him - Elisha then burns the plough, sacrifices the Oxen and follows Elijah into the invisible, the intangible, the crossing over into calling - in the Kairos of incarnational reality.

I Kings 19:19-21

The Call of Elisha



Quote:

19 So Elijah went from there and found Elisha son of Shaphat. He was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen, and he himself was driving the twelfth pair. Elijah went up to him and threw his cloak around him. 20 Elisha then left his oxen and ran after Elijah. "Let me kiss my father and mother good-by," he said, "and then I will come with you."

"Go back," Elijah replied. "What have I done to you?" 21 So Elisha left him and went back. He took his yoke of oxen and slaughtered them. He burned the plowing equipment to cook the meat and gave it to the people, and they ate. Then he set out to follow Elijah and became his attendant.



Before the fall - Adam was clothed with the glory of God.

Genesis 1:27


Quote:

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.



This image was a conferment of presence covering Adam and in effect a mantle.

The critical factor is transference.

The people who mentor us will in some way transfer - impart - actually, I will use the expression - impartation - there will be an impartation of the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

The transference of mantles in the Old Testament is expressed through Impartation in the New Testament.

Romans 1:11 - Paul says


Quote:

I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong–

If his words are written on your heart and not on tablets of stone then you have become the new ark of the covenant and the tabernacle of his presence is the Holy of Holies within you through the Holy Spirit.


The tabernacle of his presence - which was outside the Camp on Calvary covered the Ark - his presence through the Cross is an expression of that weight of glory resting on us.



Do you know what happened to Smith Wigglesworth - he caught fire - through catching hold of His mantle - he reached up and touched the hem of His mantle and it set Him on Fire.

Zechariah 3:1-5

Clean Garments for the High Priest


Quote:
1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD , and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD , who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you." 5 Then I said, "Put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the LORD stood by.



Mantles and Hands are prophetically and symbolically interchangeable.

The laying on of hands in the Old and New Testament were for the following purposes:

  • Blessing.
  • The setting in place and anointing of leaders.
  • Consecration.
  • Impartation of spiritual gifts, strength, authority or wisdom.
  • Substitution and the transfer of punishment.
  • Healing
  • Deliverance.
  • Prophecy.
  • To receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit - Bishops in Liturgical Denominations do this under their Sacrament of Confirmation.

In the Old Testament, the laying on of hands often conferred spiritual blessings.


When Moses was soon to die, the Lord had Moses lay his hands upon Joshua. Joshua was already "a man in whom is the spirit," but through the laying on of hands, Joshua became full of wisdom and the anointing of Moses was transferred onto him.

In the New Testament, Jesus blessed the little children and laid His hands on them.

The Levites were brought before the Lord and the children of Israel put their hands on them.

The Levites then laid their hands upon the heads of the bullocks, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering unto the Lord to make an atonement for the Levites. This does not mean that the actual sinfulness of the people was transferred to the substitute but rather that the liability to punishment was transferred. In other words, the substitute bore the punishment of the people's sins.

Through the hands being laid on the sacrifice, they identified themselves with the offering and the sin was transferred from the sinner to the victim so that their hands would be clean to serve. Hands were laid on the victim and the sin of the sinner confessed over it. The substitute then bore the sins of the people, and their sins were said to be "laid upon it" thereby being removed.

This is a type of the atonement of Jesus, through our confession, our sins are transferred to Him so we can become holy. The Levites were then separated from among the children of Israel and belonged to the Lord completely for His service. This is also a type of the salvation in the Christian church that differentiates those who are merely justified from those who are wholly sanctified. Through faith, we lay our hands upon the Lamb of God, He takes away our sin, purifies us and consecrates us to service.

The laying on of hands in consecration and ordination is used today by many churches and it has real spiritual power. The Holy Spirit separated Paul and Barnabas for the work and the prophets and teachers laid hands upon them and sent them on their way in the power of the Holy Ghost. Today, officers of the church have hands laid on by those who confer the authority of the Holy Ghost to equip those who will serve in the church. The officers of the early church were ordained by prayer, fasting and the laying on of hands. This action did not equip them with spiritual gifts, the Seven Deacons of Acts were men chosen already "full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom." True servants of God are ordained because they are qualified, not qualified by being ordained.

Jesus laid hands on those to be healed.

Jesus did not say the sick would be immediately healed but promised, "they will recover" leaving the question of timing open. Sometimes healing is received immediately and at other times it is a gradual process. Nonetheless, Jesus promised and we should stand firm on it.

Jesus before He was received into Heaven, Jesus told us that those that believe in the gospel and are baptized will also be able to lay hands on the sick in His name and they will recover. The book of Acts is full of examples of the apostles using their hands with the same power that Jesus had with "many signs and wonders." Ananias laid his hands on Paul, restoring his sight. The apostles Barnabas and Paul had the power, Paul healed many by laying on of hands and God's power is described as "special miracles by the hands of Paul."

Early in church history, the anointing with oil replaced much of the laying on of hands. The Biblical imperative of laying on of hands is the reason given for chrismation (anointing with oil) following baptism in the Orthodox church, marking a convert with myrrh. Chrismation represents the seal of the grace-giving powers that are bestowed through the ceremony for spiritual life. The practice of laying on of hands were retained in the Middle Ages through the ceremonial functions and the custom of applying relics and the prayers of healing. It has always been used for ordination or setting apart for service. The laying on of hands was considered a sacrament and divine mystery, a visible representation of receiving the Holy Spirit. The Wesleyan and Whitefield revivals, the Great Awakening and the holiness movement saw the power and faith restored apart from mere ceremony, tradition and formality.

Many churches today still use the laying on of hands as a ritual - prophetic and symbolic enactment - to "confirm" people with real spiritual power and authority in Christ. Holy hands even with little faith under this kind of power is sufficient to drive out demons and demolish strongholds, heal the sick and anoint true servants.

Through the laying on of hands, with prayers and fasting, Paul and Barnabas were commissioned and empowered for the work God had for them to do. By the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled, God had opened "the door of faith unto the Gentiles." Elders, deacons and bishops are consecrated by the laying on of hands. The gift that was in Timothy was given him by prophecy with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. Paul was to remind Timothy to stir up this gift of God. When Paul wrote the Romans, he longed to see them so that "I may impart to you some spiritual gift." That had to be in the laying on of hands or he would not have to see them in person. The Holy Spirit came upon those at Ephesus that Paul would lay hands on and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Peter and John laid hands upon the Samaritans and they received the Holy Spirit.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was given to the whole group through the spontaneous action of God with tongues of fire resting on each of them. Others receive it through repentance. We stand in prayer lines to be prophesied to and receive the impartation of the Holy Ghost and spiritual gifts. Many in the healing and revival ministries lay on holy hands and many fall back from the power. Many of us report the same experiences when we receive the power, many "slain by the spirit." The simultaneous feeling of peace and power, the tingling sensations and the compulsion to lift up our hands and drink of the spirit, sometimes just a relaxing surrender reassuring us that He is in control, and that His love for us is greater than we will ever be able to comprehend. Many report of the power to stretch out our hands in prayer and spiritual agreement toward others, feeling the virtue and power leaving us through our hands.

The weight of glory commented on by Paul was a spiritual mantle

2 Corinthians 4:16-18.


Quote:
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. 17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, 18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal




That weight of glory is a spiritual mantle - it is transforming when it rests on your shoulders - everything changes - you cross over your Jordan.

No living man has seen the deep scarlet colour of the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the Church and when we go up and go forth in the authority of that mantle even very rocks groan, utter and cry justice.

I also like this by Bob Jones and Keith Davies:

Quote:
THE SEVENFOLD SPIRIT OF GOD

And the Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

And He will delight in the fear of the LORD, and He will not judge by what His eyes see, nor make a decision by what His ears hear; (Isa 11:2-3)


Isaiah 11:2 prophetically foretold the ministry of the promised Messiah. For the Church to do the work that He did, fulfilling John 14:12, this same manifestation of the Spirit must also rest upon her. It is no small responsibility for someone to be anointed with the Sevenfold Spirit of God. Much prayer and preparatory refining must usher the release of this powerful spiritual reality. Careful adherence to the leading of the Spirit must also follow in the administration of these mantles of the Spirit’s attributes. For those who have been so prepared, the Seven Spirits of God will become a reality this year and the years to follow. The Church has seen very few willing to pay the price and endure the persecution to carry the Seven Spirits of God. Even so, this generation will produce "dread champions" anointed with the Sevenfold Spirit of God. An invitation is being extended to whosoever will.

The Seven Spirits of God work together in pairs. The spirit of wisdom and the spirit of understanding work in harmony with one another. The spirit of counsel and might work in unison as do the spirits of knowledge and reverential fear of God, all in harmony with the manifestation of the Spirit of the Lord. The "gifts" are manifestations of the Spirit operated by the will of the Spirit when the need arises. The Seven Spirits of God are "mantles" placed upon the believer to operate in full measure. We do not possess the gifts, rather, the gifts are manifested according to need. All nine gifts of the Spirit can operate within a believer filled with the Holy Spirit. However, the Seven Spirits of God are measurably greater manifestations of the Spirit taking the mature and purified believer deep into the mysteries and power of God.

The emphasis for this year will be on the spirits of wisdom and understanding, although all seven will be in operation in given measures. For the release of the mantle of wisdom and understanding we must pray and ask for it to be released to us. Equipping and instruction will result, helping us to appropriately understand the Biblical offices and administration. We must earnestly desire these mantles and pray for the maturity and character to be worthy of them.

Ephesians 1:17 corresponds with the spirit of wisdom and understanding. The term for revelation and for understanding are synonymous with one another. The word of wisdom, word of knowledge and discerning of spirits work hand in hand with the spirit of wisdom and understanding.

The spirit of wisdom is the supernatural ability of God that comes upon our spirits to see Jesus as He is and receive a spiritual understanding and knowledge of the word of God that enables us to know what to do, when to do it and how to do it in every situation; thus, maximizing our usage of God given talents in order to affect His plans and purposes. It will also reveal the manifold and unsearchable wisdom and secrets of God and the things in heaven. It means a deeper intimacy into the affairs of God; the cherished relationship with God that will enable us to know Him in all of His intimacy.

The Lord Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father and the Bride is to be seated with Him in heavenly places. Therefore, that places the Bride at the right hand of the Father with Him. In this place, the Lord can communicate in a moment of time insight that would take many hours and even months to unfold otherwise. If we will learn the art of waiting on God, we will discover the mysteries of the kingdom through these mantles.

The spirit of revelation is a comprehension of the things of God. Understanding is perceiving with the mind providing insight with perception. Wisdom and Understanding means the insight into the true nature of things with the ability to discern mode of action with a view to their results. The first is theoretical while the second is practical; the ability to not only know the things of God but also the application of them practically. Revelation is the comprehension imparted into our spirits from the Holy Spirit and transmitted into our minds. It is the voice of God speaking to our spirits and informing our minds of that which God is going to do; the unfolding of hidden secrets to us by the Holy spirit; the revealing of mysteries and insight into the future.

Daniel 1:17 and 5:11-12 conveys that Daniel was anointed with this same spirit and how it functioned in his life. As with Daniel, it will enable us to understand the meaning and the acts of God in the unveiling of Himself. Humility is a vital attribute in the operation of the spirit of wisdom and revelation. We must humble ourselves as a child in order to fruitfully bear these sacred spirits, even disclosing the secrets of Christ’s Divinity and the deep things of God. Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, (Rom 16:25)

The spirit of wisdom and revelation will enable us to understand the deep mysteries and purposes of God that are kept hidden. Paul continually revealed mysteries of the kingdom with this anointing and mantle of the Holy Spirit. He flowed in this anointing. When the spirit of wisdom is resting upon you, even while meditating upon the scriptures, suddenly deep truths are instantaneously imparted. It will even cross reference to other passages showing the application between various truths of scripture. When the spirit of wisdom is resting upon you, God will share things that will take place in nations, regions, cities etc.. He will even expose to you secrets and insights of an upcoming year.

This spirit provides knowledge of the Godhead and allows us to know God more affectionately, leading to intimate appreciation of God Himself; the inner beauty of the Lord is His grace and Glory. Likewise, we must adorn the inner man with meekness and humility. The inner beauty of God is His grace; the beauty of holiness. The spirit of wisdom and revelation will give us the comprehension of these aspects of God.

THE EYE OF GOD

Bob also saw the "Eye" of God illustrating to him the seven eyes of God. Bob was told the church will begin to see His Spirit direct them by the "eyes of God" through those anointed with the spirit of wisdom and understanding. "For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may strongly support those whose heart is completely His." These will not judge by what their natural eyes see nor by what their natural ears hear. Rather, with righteousness He will judge the poor and decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth by releasing the insight His eye provides and the understanding conveyed from His Heart.

I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye. (Ps 32:8)

"For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven will be glad when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel-- these are the eyes of the LORD which range to and fro throughout the earth." (Zec 4:10)

Divine counsel and instruction will proceed from the very heart of God as He continues to prepare us for the notable events imminently ahead. More importantly, this Truth, when embraced, will allow us to walk more closely with Him, even as Enoch walked until finally we "are no more" and all that can be found is the Spirit of Christ living in us.

For this reason, ever since I heard about your trust in the Lord Jesus and you're love for all Gods people, I have not stopped giving thanks for you. In my prayers I keep asking the God of our Lord Jesus the Messiah, the glorious Father, to give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you will have full knowledge of Him. I pray that he will give light to the eyes of your heart's, so that you will understand the hope to which He has called you, what rich glories there are in the inheritance He has promised His people, and how surpassingly great is His power working in us who trust Him. It works with the same mighty strength he used when he worked in the Messiah to raise him from the dead and seat Him at His right hand in heaven. (Eph 1:17-20)

Revelations 5:6 describes the Lord having seven horns depicting His COMPLETE power and seven eyes illustrating His COMPLETE knowledge. He is the fountain of all wisdom and the source of all knowledge.

Bob Jones and Keith Davies - Shepherd's Rod 2000

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/02/2005 at 4:28pm
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Beverly Miller
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Posted: 07/02/2005 at 4:32pm | IP Logged Quote Beverly Miller

Mark have you ever experienced The Lord placing a mantle on your shoulders ?

In Christ ,

Beverly Miller

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Posted: 07/02/2005 at 5:09pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Beverley

Hi. Yes I have.  I asked to receive Stephen's mantle.

In the Love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/02/2005 at 5:11pm
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Posted: 07/02/2005 at 5:24pm | IP Logged Quote Beverly Miller

Thankyou Mark!   Wow that's a heavy duty mantle !     I sense you have a very deep hunger to be fulfilled in teaching God's people .  Are you involved in teaching in your church?

In Christ,

Beverly Miller

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Posted: 07/02/2005 at 11:56pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Beverly Miller wrote:
I sense you have a very deep hunger to be fulfilled in teaching God's people .  Are you involved in teaching in your church?

Beverley

Hi.  Any teaching I do is on an informal basis - most of the stuff I do is dealing with the Spirituality of Encounter - transformative encounters with Jesus.

In His Love.

Mark

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Posted: 07/03/2005 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

Mark and Beverly,

This is good Mark  I really apreciate this, along with the other readers here.
Yes, the kabod……. The weight of the Glory of God coming upon.  I have felt this,, to the degree that I could ‘take it’ presently, I mean,” Thank You Lord for Your Mercies in this.”, and it is fearfully awesome and holy when God presents in this way to us. I have experienced this both alone with Lord, and corporately with others in gatherings -- only to a degree, or a touch of kabod I emphasize, because I don’t believe I / we / most of us (?),, could take God’s kabod presence fully *yet* and continue to live on in these bodies. …His weighty Glory ( Light ) …. But,,,, I believe we are heading that ‘a way ( American cowboy euphemism ;). One of these days, coming days, the church Body of Jesus Christ folks may even be asked to wear a veil like Moses did – due to the shining of God that emanated from him, after being in The Lord’s immediate presence…….but, I digress.

I had not associated the weight of His Glory,  kabod, as a ‘mantle’  previously, but this makes sense to me now as I read your teaching. Adam/Eve lost this mantle/God’ clothing,,,,,,, and we are being filled up (inside ) and clothed ( outside ) with Christ day by day, now presently……. whew. Thank you, Mark.

In some further on "Light", I like this portion,, by C. Joe McKnight,

( from the 'series' ) GOD IS
    THE FATHER OF LIGHTS. Every and all light is the gift of the
Father. There is no greater giver nor greater gift than that which
comes from the Father. It is precisely what this world needs. Both the
natural light which maintains plant and animal life and the spiritual
light which will bring about eternal life. The word in the Greek is, phos,
meaning to give light. Expressing, “light as seen by the eye.” It can also
mean to shine. It is, luminosity in the widest sense, figuratively,
naturally, artificially or literally. In other words, without the Lord there
can be no light of any kind. All light originates with Him. A scientific
explanation is given, stating that, light is a luminous emanation,
probably of force, which comes from certain heavenly bodies enabling
the eye to see form and color. James 1:17   
    NO VARIABLENESS. Unchanging, invariably always the same. He
has stated in His Word this particular fact of His nature. “I am the
LORD, I change not.” Mal. 3:6a He is constantly accessible, regardless
of the day of the week, or the hour of the day or night. He is there every
moment of time for all who will call upon His name. He receives and
treats all alike. There is no shadow of turning with Him. No sun rise or
sunset. No eclipse. The child of the Lord may approach Him boldly
knowing with deep assurance that they will be received and heard. 
Heb. 4:15 He is constant and steadfast. Light is the only constant in
the universe. It never changes. A constant in science is, any
characteristic of a substance, numerically determined, that remains
always the same under specific conditions such as gravitation, the
velocity of light, electrical conductivity, etc. Of them all, light is the 
only
true constant. It never changes. It is always the same. No wonder, for
all light comes from the Lord. James 1:17c 
    THE GARMENT OF THE KING IS LIGHT. Light enfolding itself
around and about Him creating a shining beautiful garment. Ps. 104:2
We are afforded a glimpse of the bright scintillating garb of the Lord
on the Mount of Transfiguration. The Father appeared in a bright cloud,
one that was brightly illuminated and full of light. There He spoke of His
feelings toward His Son. Mt. 17:5 The raiment of Jesus was white and
glistering, radiant or glistening. Luke 9:29 The face of the Lord Jesus
was shining with sun like glory while His clothing became as white as
the light. Mt. 17:2 NIV. Mark reports His clothing to be dazzling white,
whiter than any bleach in the world could whiten them. He who is the
light of the world stood before the disciples that day in full revelation of
the glory of the light of the Almighty.'

Mark, you also wrote,
‘No living man has seen the deep scarlet colour of the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the Church and when we go up and go forth in the authority of that mantle even very rocks groan, utter and cry justice.'

These prophetic flow-words, stir me……. for I can see it as through a glass, darkly yet,  with eyes of hope,, coming, just ahead. Too many perceive God’s justice as scary, and it is that for sure, but  we must not miss the healing, the Love , perfections, equity, righteousness, the justice of God brings ….

 Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.” – Eph. 3:21



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Posted: 07/04/2005 at 3:51am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicky

Hi, Dear Heart.

I would like to say afew brief things on a quote from C. Joe Mcknight:

Quote:
The word in the Greek is, phos, meaning to give light. Expressing, “light as seen by the eye.” It can also mean to shine. It is, luminosity in the widest sense, figuratively, naturally, artificially or literally. In other words, without the Lord there can be no light of any kind. All light originates with Him.

From the root word, Phos, Eastern Orthodox theology derives the discipline of Photosis [literally, Enlightenment].

However, because of the Phronema - Worldview, Mindset, Perceptual Grid of Eastern Orthodoxy - Photosis is seen as Illumination through Learning - which involves studying the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

Quote:
As Father Seraphim noted in Vita Patrum: The Life of the Fathers, "The purpose of the Lives of the saints is not to give abstract knowledge but, as St. Gregory of Tours often states in his works, to edify spiritually and to inspire [the Human Heart] to imitation" (p. 31).

However, in an article on St. Gregory Palamas, Daniel Rogich noted that "Gregory Palamas" defended the Faith of the [early Church] Fathers "not simply by repeating and parroting their ancient formulas and words, but by 'incarnationally' re-defining and reinterpreting their message" [see Daniel Rogich, "Homily 34 of Saint Gregory Palamas," The Greek Orthodox Theological Review, 33(2), 135-156 - this is the approach pioneered by Fr. Thomas Hopko at St. Vladimir's Seminary ].

BUT - Photosis as an expression of Progressive Sanctification is actually a process of being increasingly filled with Light in our Hearts - we are becoming Enlightened in every way.

Quote:
2 Corinthians 4:6  For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 

His Light is our Heartlife, our Heart Knowledge, through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who is changing us from Glory to Glory - that inward and spiritual work of Grace.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/04/2005 at 7:03am
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Posted: 07/04/2005 at 1:25pm | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

Mark and all,

Here is another, different, & prophetic view / sharing on 'mantles'.  I first read this over a year past, and I received much from this piece; truth is that I am still weighing and judging other portions.
btw - I really like and respect  Christ' in Johnny Enlow, the below author. Anyway, adding this to the thread......  Would love to hear your and others thoughts, if any feel so led. If so, thank you.

 - Vicki


---------------
Vision of the Spiritual Mantles
-  Johnny Enlow

May 29, 2004


Recently while in the country of Honduras I had a profound experience with the Lord followed by this vision of mantles. In this vision I was surrounded by what seemed to be four levels of mantles that were suspended in the air. The highest level of mantles was about neck high and the lowest mantles were below the knees. The mantles on each of these four levels were quite different from each other. The top level mantles were very thin but very attractive. The bottom level mantles were very thick and course and looked almost like burlap sack material. The mantle level that was about waist high was a little more attractive and not so thick. The chest high mantles were even thinner and had a pleasing appearance. The top two levels of mantles were virtually all taken, though a few were still available. The bottom level of mantles were almost all still available. As I watched these unattractive, thick mantles I saw that they received lightning and then also were a source of lightning. The lowest level of mantles' key characteristics were that they received and emitted lightning. I then saw the name Elijah beside one of the mantles and a couple of other well known names.

INTERPRETATION

There are many mantles available.

I don't think that the interpretation is too difficult, but I will share some things that the Spirit of the Lord was sharing with me. First of all, mantles represent a spiritual inheritance that we can receive that is far beyond what would be produced from just our own life and efforts. I believe that in the spirit realm, they are very distinguishable and real. I saw probably hundreds of available mantles and they may have been representative of thousands of available mantles.I believe that a mantle becomes available when a spiritual or natural son has defaulted on picking it up from his spiritual or natural father. Elijah's mantle was taken by Elisha, but then it died with him which is why even his bones had resurrection life in them. As a mantle is generationally advanced it's power and authority increases. There are many, many mantles available and the primary way to lay hold of them is by faith.

There are attractive and unattractive mantles.

Interestingly, there are mantles that look good to the natural eyes and mantles that don't look good to the natural eyes. I was shown that many of the highest but thinnest mantles were very visible ministries that were on TV and had other media exposure. This level of mantle was really very desirable because one only had to slightly bow his head to "get under it" in order to put it on. These mantles on the highest level carried a lot of notoriety here on earth.

The "greater works" are in the 'burlap' mantle.

The only way to be able to get under the lowest level of mantles was to get on one's face in extreme humility. This kind of mantle is literally loaded with the powers of the age to come but is very low and quite unattractive to our flesh. I was shown that often those who carry this mantle will get no earthly credit or recognition for what they carry in the spirit. They will be sent to prophesy over a region and it will bring a quick and powerful response from heaven. However often one with a more attractive mantle will also be sent to the same region at virtually the same time and will be given credit even in history as the voice that brought heaven's intervention. This will create a temptation to dump the 'burlap' mantle, but if it is done then the power of that mantle will also be lost. To access these mantles requires great humility and great faith. This is a very rare combination and is why most of these mantles are still available. Most with great humility will not have the faith to believe this could be theirs and those with the great faith that this could be theirs will not be prepared to go low enough to get under this mantle.

The great mantles are even now available!

I have thought much of this vision since receiving it. I had an initial great excitement about these power mantles, but also became very aware of the level of 'dying' that was required to have the honor IN HEAVEN of carrying one of these on earth. These mantles carry incredible authority and power and not all who wear them will remain "invisible". However, many will remain "under radar" as it were and even must remain so to maintain the mantle. Many will be as Special Forces who must be as those that blend in so that they can make a way to call down great firepower from heaven. I share this vision with you so that you may be challenged to do what it takes to activate these mantles. I believe that God's army in Joel 2 is primarily made up of those wearing these mantles. They run in rank with no pushing or shoving and they bring great destruction to Satan's camp. The last generation will be raised up by generals who wear these 'burlap' mantles. SELAH.


Johnny Enlow
www.theissacharianpost.com



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Posted: 07/06/2005 at 12:41pm | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

More on Jesus outer garment, mantle,,

"Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece ....... " - Jn.19:23,24 ref. -Ps. 22:18

I mentioned a prophetic dream the Lord gave me last Autumn (on another forum/thread here) concerning a harvest shirt, and a little about Aholiab the weaver and artisan who worked in the building of Moses Tabernacle. At the time of that dream I was very thankful to a friend .... a teacher, of whom I asked input, for pointing this possibility out to me concerning Jesus’ tunic, outer mantle

quote:

‘…… where it says in John 19,  now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.’ There is reference to the priestly garment: Such was the [chiton <5509>,] or coat, of the Jewish high-priest, as described by Josephus.’



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Posted: 07/07/2005 at 1:37pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki Camp wrote:

---------------
Vision of the Spiritual Mantles
-  Johnny Enlow

May 29, 2004


Recently while in the country of Honduras I had a profound experience with the Lord followed by this vision of mantles. In this vision I was surrounded by what seemed to be four levels of mantles that were suspended in the air. The highest level of mantles was about neck high and the lowest mantles were below the knees. The mantles on each of these four levels were quite different from each other. The top level mantles were very thin but very attractive. The bottom level mantles were very thick and course and looked almost like burlap sack material. The mantle level that was about waist high was a little more attractive and not so thick. The chest high mantles were even thinner and had a pleasing appearance. The top two levels of mantles were virtually all taken, though a few were still available. The bottom level of mantles were almost all still available. As I watched these unattractive, thick mantles I saw that they received lightning and then also were a source of lightning. The lowest level of mantles' key characteristics were that they received and emitted lightning. I then saw the name Elijah beside one of the mantles and a couple of other well known names.

INTERPRETATION

There are many mantles available.

I don't think that the interpretation is too difficult, but I will share some things that the Spirit of the Lord was sharing with me. First of all, mantles represent a spiritual inheritance that we can receive that is far beyond what would be produced from just our own life and efforts. I believe that in the spirit realm, they are very distinguishable and real. I saw probably hundreds of available mantles and they may have been representative of thousands of available mantles.I believe that a mantle becomes available when a spiritual or natural son has defaulted on picking it up from his spiritual or natural father. Elijah's mantle was taken by Elisha, but then it died with him which is why even his bones had resurrection life in them. As a mantle is generationally advanced it's power and authority increases. There are many, many mantles available and the primary way to lay hold of them is by faith.

There are attractive and unattractive mantles.

Interestingly, there are mantles that look good to the natural eyes and mantles that don't look good to the natural eyes. I was shown that many of the highest but thinnest mantles were very visible ministries that were on TV and had other media exposure. This level of mantle was really very desirable because one only had to slightly bow his head to "get under it" in order to put it on. These mantles on the highest level carried a lot of notoriety here on earth.

The "greater works" are in the 'burlap' mantle.

The only way to be able to get under the lowest level of mantles was to get on one's face in extreme humility. This kind of mantle is literally loaded with the powers of the age to come but is very low and quite unattractive to our flesh. I was shown that often those who carry this mantle will get no earthly credit or recognition for what they carry in the spirit. They will be sent to prophesy over a region and it will bring a quick and powerful response from heaven. However often one with a more attractive mantle will also be sent to the same region at virtually the same time and will be given credit even in history as the voice that brought heaven's intervention. This will create a temptation to dump the 'burlap' mantle, but if it is done then the power of that mantle will also be lost. To access these mantles requires great humility and great faith. This is a very rare combination and is why most of these mantles are still available. Most with great humility will not have the faith to believe this could be theirs and those with the great faith that this could be theirs will not be prepared to go low enough to get under this mantle.

The great mantles are even now available!

I have thought much of this vision since receiving it. I had an initial great excitement about these power mantles, but also became very aware of the level of 'dying' that was required to have the honor IN HEAVEN of carrying one of these on earth. These mantles carry incredible authority and power and not all who wear them will remain "invisible". However, many will remain "under radar" as it were and even must remain so to maintain the mantle. Many will be as Special Forces who must be as those that blend in so that they can make a way to call down great firepower from heaven. I share this vision with you so that you may be challenged to do what it takes to activate these mantles. I believe that God's army in Joel 2 is primarily made up of those wearing these mantles. They run in rank with no pushing or shoving and they bring great destruction to Satan's camp. The last generation will be raised up by generals who wear these 'burlap' mantles. SELAH.


Johnny Enlow
www.theissacharianpost.com

Vicki

I have given this text some reflection and I am going to speak with you in a different way in engaging this type of prophetic exhortation.

My primary categories in walking through the text and following the signposts, directions and pathways of the text are Intention, Perception, Location and Implication.

There is a strand of Pentecostal Prophetics which is a synthetic category that combines Old Testament Paradigms, Kataphatic Mysticism and Real Symbology into a series of  visual  phenomenological-pneumatological shifts and  prophetic declarations.

The power of symbols is that they tie different levels of reality together.

The reality of symbols is that they are constantly moving towards reification - an invested substance through the attribution of meaning, purpose and efficacious expectation.

Perception always precedes action and perception is an expression of intention.

There are certain intentionalities embedded in this text - an appeal to a form of Pentecostal Asceticism - the Burlap Mantles and the release of Ministry through the descent to the Lowest Point - efficacious humility - which take on a sacramental aspect - Mantles as sacraments.

There are also visual metaphors of carnal and worldly christianity expressed in the thinness of the mantles worn by visible ministries.

The idea that the mantle of Elsha transferred its efficacious qualities to his bones is a speculative form of the transference of the anointing.

This the problem with perception - this has to find authentic location within Scripture and this statement is not an authentic form of exposition or exegesis but a speculative assumption.

I like the text although I believe that the spiritual mantles or anointings or impartations that we wear - change, deepen and thicken as we mature, grow and deepen in our walk with the Lord. 

This grading of ministries and mantles troubles me - we have to make room for transformative grace.

Vicki, I like the symbolic - sacramental imagery - but it is not prophetic, incarnational or substantial - I do not see soteriological implication in this text.

I am going to be very direct:

Quote:
2 Corinthians 10; 12- 18 [American Standard Version]

12 For we are not bold to number or compare ourselves with certain of them that commend themselves: but they themselves, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, are without understanding.

   13 But we will not glory beyond our measure, but according to the measure of the province which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even unto you.

   14 For we stretch not ourselves overmuch, as though we reached not unto you: for we came even as far as unto you in the gospel of Christ:

   15 not glorying beyond our measure, that is, in other men's labors; but having hope that, as your faith groweth, we shall be magnified in you according to our province unto further abundance,

   16 so as to preach the gospel even unto the parts beyond you, and not to glory in another's province in regard of things ready to our hand.

   17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 

   18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

I have deliberately chosen the American Standard Version - this whole issue of what is commendable and commended -

If we walk the walk with Jesus - He will transform our mantles - they may lose their worldly and carnal auratic glamour and attraction, become thicker, more knotted, more Burlap like - but we are all being changed from Glory to Glory. 

Quote:
2 Corinthians 3:18

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ok.  That is my reading of the text.

Love.

Mark

 



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/07/2005 at 1:41pm
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Posted: 07/07/2005 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki Camp wrote:

More on Jesus outer garment, mantle,,

"Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece ....... " - Jn.19:23,24 ref. -Ps. 22:18

I mentioned a prophetic dream the Lord gave me last Autumn (on another forum/thread here) concerning a harvest shirt, and a little about Aholiab the weaver and artisan who worked in the building of Moses Tabernacle. At the time of that dream I was very thankful to a friend .... a teacher, of whom I asked input, for pointing this possibility out to me concerning Jesus’ tunic, outer mantle

quote:

‘…… where it says in John 19,  now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.’ There is reference to the priestly garment: Such was the [chiton <5509>,] or coat, of the Jewish high-priest, as described by Josephus.’

Vicki

I like this very much.  I like the incarnational symbology of the link between Jesus as our High Priest [Justice] and the Paschal Lamb [Mercy] expressed through His mantle.

When we take on the increasing image of Jesus in us - the Imago Dei - the Image of God - we take on His Mantle.

Quote:
Hebrews 1:12b like [not through] a garment [a mantle] they will be changed

As we are changed from Glory to Glory, our spiritual mantles change with us - they are an expression of who we are in Him - they become increasing of the woven substance of His mantle.

Love.

Mark 

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Posted: 07/07/2005 at 9:57pm | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

Mark,

Firstly, my prayers and empathies extended to your nation, and those especially who've lost loved ones or friends, and for the injured. Senseles to my mind,,, tragic.

I really appreciate your response, insight, and weighing of the above word offered. Thank you.

I must be honest here and tell you that I am stuck on, or with
: Kataphatic Mysticism  (??)  If you have a moment.  A short response is fine, Mark, if you could ..... has me wondering, you see?

You had written,
' There is a strand of Pentecostal Prophetics which is a synthetic category that combines Old Testament Paradigms, Kataphatic Mysticism and Real Symbology into a series of  visual  phenomenological-pneumatological shifts and  prophetic declarations.'  I ask too because I probably 'are one' ,,, a practitioner ~ LOL.

( I did well in looking into : Warp, Woof and Weft,,,,,,though  ;o) - neat input that. )

Here is another garment I am once again considering these past few days,
 "He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." - Rev. 19:13

- Vicki


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Posted: 07/08/2005 at 3:58am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki

I will discuss Kataphatic Mysticism.

Kataphatic mysticism (from the Greek, “kataphasis,” meaning affirmation or “saying with”).

Kataphatic Mysticism uses images, thoughts, symbols, paradigms, liturgies, enculturation to express revelation in a mystical way.

As an Evangelical I believe I have Apostolic and Prophetic Authority to use the Living Word of God and simply speak a decree or command in His name in every situation.

When I overcame that sorcerer - it fired dirty yellow beams from its eyes straight at my chest and the Word of God kept me on my feet and I cast it down and overcame it.

There are numerous Christain streams who use Oil, Holy Water, Mantles, Staffs, Rods, Objects - in a sacramental- soteriological way for Healing, Deliverance, Prophecy - for us this involves a phenomenological- pneumatological shift - we tend to use the pure product mainly - the Living Word of God expressed in and through the Lord Jesus Christ in the power of the Spirit in line with what the Father is saying and doing.

With Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/08/2005 at 10:15am
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Posted: 07/08/2005 at 4:41am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki Camp wrote:
Mark,

Firstly, my prayers and empathies extended to your nation, and those especially who've lost loved ones or friends, and for the injured. Senseles to my mind,,, tragic.

Vicki, thanks for standing with us in solidarity and prayer.

Here is another garment I am once again considering these past few days,
 "He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." - Rev. 19:13

Vicki

There numerous Commentaries, Expositions, Exegetics [Reading out of], Eisegetics [reading into], Statements and Thoughts on this verse.

I have decided to do something slightly different.

Firstly, the Word of God is a direct symbolic reference to Jesus.

Secondly, the robe he is wearing is clearly a symbol of a High Priestly Robe which has been dipped in the Blood of Calvary.

Now, where I am about to start changing perspectives is in the purpose of this Incarnational Symbology.

The reason Jesus submitted to baptism in the Jordan [a sacramental symbol of repentance] - even though He was sinless and utterly pure and demonstrably filled with the Holy Spirit - was an act of total identification with US and a prophetic signification of the Life Lived in the Power of the Spirit, through the Son with the Father.

The wearing of the robe dipped in Blood again is an act of total identification with us - we are clothed, covered and wrapped in the Blood of Calvary - the Glory of God expressed in and through Jesus - and it acts as a prophetic and incarnational signification to the principlaities and powers that every high thing was cast down at Calvary and Jesus is the Victor  - in this there is also the image of overcoming Holy Zeal in the form of a cloak - the Blood of Calvary.

Quote:
Isaiah 59:17

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

I recommend these texts on Holy Zeal and Diabolic Wars by Pope Shenouda III - Head of the Coptic Church - to you.

http://tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/holyzeal/index.html

http://tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/Diabwars/index.html

He is a rugged old man from His Tradition -but a deeply loving one and devoted to following Jesus.

For what it is worth - remember He has a Coptic Orthodox perspective - so I always read with prayful discernment but with a hunger to share bread for the journey and an openess of spirit - in the Holy Spirit - to receive everything the Lord has for me.

Love.

Mark 

 

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Posted: 07/08/2005 at 10:18am | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

** Thank you Mark, for this definition ! hmmm,,,,,,
Sounds like God' speak to me, only that His
enculturation is......... heavenly.
"...in earth as in heaven. " - amen, ' ......even so come to us Lord Jesus.'

** I will try to read this man, these sites you recommend.  Thank you for these also.

 - Vicki




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Posted: 07/08/2005 at 10:35am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki

Hi.  I am not ruling anything out - I went very deeply into several streams of Eastern Orthodox approaches to Christian Spirituality - further than I have ever gone before - I realised they do not understand the Cross and they have a totally confused understanding of Original Sin.

I am an Evangelical by the will and calling of the Trinity - so I will not be becoming Eastern Orthodox but they have devoted hearts to Jesus and in that we are in Spiritual Communion.

I am gradually adopting the same approach to Roman Catholicism - there are deeper tensions - although we are all one when it comes to the work of the Cross - we have to Love them.

In dealing with Pentecostals - Johnny is devoted to Jesus - I know that - it is just that if we are going to make prophetic statements,we really have to understand the soteriological purpose of the Trinity as revealed in Scripture - if we see or say anything that contradicts that - let it fall by the wayside and keep walking on closer and further into His Real Presence.

You have a wonderful ministry - I am certainly a BIG Fan!

The core of Evangelical Spirituality is our friendship with Jesus - we follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

Quote:
What A Friend We Have In Jesus - Joseph M. Scriven, 1820-1886

1. What a friend we have in Jesus,
all our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry
everything to God in prayer!
O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear,
all because we do not carry
everything to God in prayer.

2. Have we trials and temptations?
Is there trouble anywhere?
We should never be discouraged;
take it to the Lord in prayer.
Can we find a friend so faithful
who will all our sorrows share?
Jesus knows our every weakness;
take it to the Lord in prayer.

3.Are we weak and heavy laden,
cumbered with a load of care?
Precious Saviour, still our refuge;
take it to the Lord in prayer.
Do thy friends despise, forsake thee?
Take it to the Lord in prayer!
In his arms he'll take and shield thee;
thou wilt find a solace there.

Actually,you might like this - it sums up my approach to the Church.

Do you know that the pile of stones that was the witness between Laban and Jacob, was Jesus as the Cornerstone and The Church as the living stones resting on the Cornerstone - what did Jacob and Laban think they were actually building as a witness, in what was actually a prophetic action and declaration - why, The Church.

Genesis 31:45-49


Quote:
So Jacob took a stone and set it up as a pillar [The Cross]. 46 He said to his relatives, "Gather some stones.[The Church]" So they took stones and piled them in a heap, and they ate there by the heap [In His presence]. 47 Laban called it Jegar Sahadutha, and Jacob called it Galeed. 48 Laban said, "This heap is a witness between you and me today." That is why it was called Galeed. 49 It was also called Mizpah, because he said, "May the LORD keep watch between you and me when we are away from each other



I Peter 2:


Quote:
The Living Stone and a Chosen People

4 As you come to him, the living Stone–rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him– 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 7Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected -

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/09/2005 at 1:07pm
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Posted: 07/09/2005 at 12:53pm | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

Bless you Mark -- yes, I did like your last offering. Thank you for that.
I've only just been able to first-look at your sites recommended -- I hope to dig more as I can...... whew,,, and good stuff by this man, so far !

Right now, presently, in some relation to this 'mantle thread', I am also re-visiting the scrip. of Joseph's' coat made by his father,,,with the many colors,
"Now Israel ( Jacob) loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age. Also he made him a tunic of many colors." -  Gen. 37:3, NKJ ( variously translated coat, long robe, tunic...... )

As well as this marvelous portion of promise through Isaiah,
"
To console those who mourn in Zion, To give them beauty for ashes, The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; That they may be called trees of righteousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified."

Well, as you can see I am hopping around scriptures a bit, and concentrating on some the more, as led, and I trust Lord is zeroing me in, as He may desire.
( II Tim.3:16 )  God is good ! \o/
 





 

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Posted: 07/09/2005 at 1:00pm | IP Logged Quote Vicki Camp

oops, I meant to give that scrip address:
Isaiah 61, v. 3
......... mmmmmmmmm, of course this whole chapter is wonderful, , chock full....... but the Lord had brought this 'garment of praise' to my remembrance, so I mentioned it above, and am adding it to my present 'mantle' ponderings.


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Posted: 07/11/2005 at 4:14am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Vicki

I need to repent of a statement I made in this thread on the nature of Evangelicals which appeared to be sectarian - actually, a Godly woman, whom for the moment I will call 'Suzannah'  - said something that testified to my Conscience - that we can all learn something from each other - this has got to be in the very HeartLife of the Holy Spirit.

I have seen Angels hand men and women who were getting up to preach the Word - that Bow of Burning Gold, of Burning Bronze and those Arrows of [flaming] Desire - even among the Eastern Orthodox [Father Thomas Hopko] and the Roman Catholics [Father Raniero Cantamalessa] - there are even modern Divines in these other Liturgical Traditions and Ecclesiologies.  

The Puritans believed the Preaching is Prophecy, that when you preach, you prophesy!

Quote:
Jerusalem

Written by William Blake

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green
And was the holy lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen

And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills

And was Jerusalem builded there
Among those dark Satanic mills

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire

I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my (my) sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land
'Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land

Whose feet?  Our Feet.  Whose Countenance Divine?  The Countenance of the Holy Spirit at work in US.

And what of the Bow?

Quote:
Psalm 18:28 - 34

28 You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.

    29 With your help I can advance against a troop; with my God I can scale a wall.

   

   30As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

    31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

    32 It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.

    33 He makes my feet like the feet of a deer; he enables me to stand on the heights.

    34 He trains my hands for battle; my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

And what of the Arrows?

Quote:
Isaiah 49:2 And he has made my mouth like a sharp sword, in the shade of his hand he has kept me; and he has made me like a polished arrow, keeping me in his secret place

William Blake (1757-1827) was a British poet, painter, visionary mystic.

What I really like about William Blake is that as a child he was walking on Peckham Rye - which in the 18th Century was still rolling Green Fields and he saw an Angel sitting in a tree and then he began to see a world of Angels,  Prophets and Apostles - even though I disagree with his later mystical theology - I am captivated that as a child he saw Angels -

I was once as a child approaching a stream in full flood with a rather wonky and precarious bridge  and then I saw two Angels - one standing either side of the bridge and Father who was with me - an Evangelical Anglican Vicar - although He could see the men - did not seem to see the brillant whiteness of their hair or their shining countenance - anyway, they grabbed hold of each one of us and helped us over the bridge - even my Dad.

I regularly see Angels - one of the most beautiful things I saw was an Angel bend over a sleeping child and gently touch her forehead - her parents were going through a marital breakdown and I just said "Jesus!" in a heartcry over the child and this Angel appeared and touched her forehead!

Anyway, the main thing is that I am an Evangelical because of the Evangel - the Gospel - but the Lord has His Evangelicals in every Denomination and every Reformation. 

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 07/11/2005 at 4:18am
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Mark Reece
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Posted: 08/26/2005 at 10:08am | IP Logged Quote Mark Reece

Mark,

If I understand you correctly, you see ‘laying on of hands’ (answering to the symbol of  Mantles in the OT) as symbolic prophecy; a declaration of the Lord, through the agency of His people, of His intention to change the manifest presence and outworking of the presence of His Spirit in someone’s life. For example, as I lay hands on someone in a prayer line, I am acting out the intention of God to fill them continually with His Spirit (answering to the Scriptural command, ‘Be filled with the Spirit…’Eph.5:18). Or, as in the case of Joshua and Moses, His intention to make transference of what He had been doing in Moses to the life of Joshua. I like this – it acknowledges the living Spirit instead of speaking about these things as though they were talismans we could pass about as we pleased.

 

You said, almost in passing,” No living man has seen the deep scarlet colour of the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the Church and when we go up and go forth in the authority of that mantle even very rocks groan, utter and cry justice.” Those words caught my attention, as they have a rhema quality about them. I would agree that the depth of Scarlet is unknown by living men, as it refers to the depth of His heart and sacrifice for His Church. Do you see that Mantle as something worn by some individuals as well as the corporate Body?

 

mark

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Posted: 08/26/2005 at 2:40pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Mark

Thanks.  I really like your summation in the first paragraph.  The three categories  use in dealing with the manifest intentionality of the Trinity are Incarnation; Prophecy; Substance. 

When I engage the symbolic, I am locating the properties and attributions of the symbolic within the category of the prophetic - although the symbolic also has incarnational attributions in that it ties different levels of reality together and signifies the substantial nature of Heavenly realities through their earthly expressions.

I am constantly looking for, listening for, reaching for the real intentionality of the Trinity in action and purpose and how it is expressed and in this I see prophetic intentionality in actions like the laying on of hands.

When we deal with Rhema - there is always a moment of speaking, shaping and making - binding and loosing - there comes a point when you understand that in Him everything is alive and everything that is alive flows, even symbols.  That mantle was worn by Stephen and if you can see it, it is worn by You - these things become the line where we meet the Cross in our lives and when we pass through the Blood, we are changed in the transition and part of that change is taking up the mantle.

It is different for each one of us - but it is our rite of passage, our baptism of fire and water - the point where He turns to You in Gethesemane and hands you the cup and says:

Quote:
Mark 10:38b,39

Jesus said. "Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?"  39"We can," they answered. Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with

Mark, You Will - but then You did, You already have done, a very long time ago before the world began - all this, it has always been a choice, we chose this. He explained to each of us what would happen and we each had a choice - the cup has always been held out and my reaching forward - I will always live that moment forever.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/26/2005 at 2:40pm
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Posted: 08/26/2005 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote Mark Reece

Mark,

I find your understanding of symbols -- especially as a category both prophetic and incarnational – to be fascinating, and helpful. In meditating on the Fatherhood of God, it is clearly an incarnational condescension, and one of GREAT love, but it also is a prophetic statement of what He is in the process of bringing about. I’ll have to ponder the bit about what I chose before the foundation of the world; I’m probably mired in temporal perception beyond what I need to be.

I have never linked that mantle to Stephen before, but that is probably because of the context in which I saw it. I was in Brazil a while ago with a team specifically there for a healing crusade. The churches in the city had spent over 100,000 hours of focused intercession for the meetings in the month before we got there. It was an amazing time, with many, many miracles, blind eyes open, deaf ears hearing, that sort of thing as well as many salvations – a good harvest time. The last morning we were there, the tangible presence of the Spirit was particularly strong, and as I huddled on the floor I found myself completely in the spirit. As my perspective changed, I could see myself there on the floor, but I was in armor (Roman) with a large round shield on my back. The shield and chest armor were the color of late summer honey, and you could see into them forever, but you could not see through them. The mantle/cloak I wore was scarlet, but I did not think that symbolic until I read your post. I wasn’t really paying much attention to any of that, anyway. As I became aware of the rest of the scene, I could feel as much as see the throne (which was truly monumental - the size of a multi-storey building - and expressed as fire) But, my attention was focused on the person standing in front of the throne – a young woman dressed in a very plain, but spotless white dress. I know that I was looking at the local Church in that area, and she was at peace, and was beautiful. I have seen the Church in other places, often in ragged dress, looking more like a refuge than a queen, as She did there.

None of these things appeared as I would have imagined them, especially me. I have looked a bit at roman arms and armor since, and was humored to find that I wore a cavalryman’s equipment – I don’t particularly like horses, and in the natural have only ridden once or twice. The Master of symbols has a wonderful sense of humor.

mark

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Posted: 08/26/2005 at 9:13pm | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Hello Mark D.,

Now there are two of you here, Mark D. and Mark R. I saw the title of this post and it interested me, although I wasn't able to get to it until now.

Earlier this year, I had a strange, or unusual, impression/vision. I sensed a whole bunch of batons falling from heaven onto my bedroom floor. What are these, Lord? He told me that various individuals had gone on to glory and not transferred their anointing to another. These batons were like in a relay race, thrown down from heaven to me.

There they laid on the floor. What was I to do with them? First, I picked up one of them and was led to carry it into the other room and place it on the mantle. No way, Lord. On the mantle. Cool, eh, how He did that -- how He had them place them on my mantle?

One by one, I began picking them up over a period of time. Then, months later, I picked up the rest of them and placed them also on the mantle in the other room.

It's really interesting how the Lord works in our lives. When He wants to increase the anointing, and add something to it, He has a way of showing us what it is.

Ann



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Posted: 08/27/2005 at 1:15am | IP Logged Quote Guests

Mark

You are the Church - that Church in the Wilderness, like Stephen in the Presence of Wild Beasts and ministered to by Angels and in this You look up and se Heaven open - when our faces shine like Angels, we are in the presence of Angels, they bear witness for how else could they cry Holy and cover their faces?

Quote:
Mark 1:13 He was in the desert ......being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and Angels attended him.

When Stephen faced the Sanhedrin, in the Unseen he was being tempted by the devil to renounce Jesus and save himself - that was his transition but instead, He looked up and saw Heaven opened and -

Quote:
Acts 6:15 His face shone like the face of an Angel.
.

This was his cup,his mantle and he did not shrink back or hesitate,not even for amoment ,but spoke out in the power and under the conviction of the Spirit- not through any human strength let me tell you - he was strengthened - being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Become like him, right now!

Quote:
Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Amen.

Love.

Mark



Edited by Mark Downham on 08/27/2005 at 1:16am
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