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Encountering Life's Issues - Is there a God? Is God real?
OpenHeaven.com Forum : Encountering Life's Issues - Is there a God? Is God real?
Subject Topic: Godís Hidden Purpose in Betrayal is for Victory on Both Sides Post Reply Post New Topic
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Posted: 03/04/2008 at 8:00am | IP Logged Quote Moderator

God's Hidden Purpose in Betrayal is for Victory on Both Sides

By Garris Elkins

"Embedded somewhere, in each act of betrayal, is the purpose of God waiting to be discovered."


garris elkinsAs you read the following list of names, what would they have in common: Benedict Arnold, Alger Hiss, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg and Judas Iscariot. They were all traitors or betrayers. The words "betray" and "traitor" each come from the same Latin word. This word means to "lead someone to their enemy by treachery." A traitor is someone who betrays a trust.

One of the most graphic betrayals in human history took place during the Last Supper. Judas betrayed Jesus in the midst of a very intimate setting. If you are familiar with the section of Scripture, you know that Jesus is taking time with His disciples to give them His last instructions before His arrest and crucifixion. Luke's account of the Last Supper reveals just how deep this betrayal was when Luke describes the betrayer as "one who sits among us as a friend." Betrayal hurts because it takes us by surprise. The Last Supper was an intimate and safe environment. We don't expect betrayal to happen in that context. In John 13 the disciples asked, "Who's He talking about?" in reference to the identity of the betrayer. It didn't make sense to the disciples that a betrayer was in their midst.

Long-term relationships are places where we assume we will experience intimacy and safety. In these relationships we can let our guard down and be ourselves. This is why it is so painful and difficult to recover from this kind of betrayal. One of the deepest wounds of betrayal is that many times it takes us by surprise. Even when it is happening we are not sure we understand fully what is taking place. The disciples didn't understand either. In Matthew's account of the Lord's betrayal the disciples asked as a group, "Is it me?"

Even Judas asked this question fully knowing that he was the betrayer. Judas was a deceiver. He was so good in this role that he would steal from the ministry fund and no one had a clue. Judas was the one who criticized Mary for pouring the anointing oil on Jesus. He had plans for that valuable oil. Judas did not become a full-blown betrayer in a single day. He got to that place by living a life of step-by-step and day-by-day compromise.

Betrayal can come in many forms. It can be a spouse who betrays a marriage bed. It can be an employee who steals company funds that were entrusted to him. It can happen to a child who is abused by someone who should have protected them. It can be a friend who betrays a confidence and shares a secret.

In order to deal with betrayal we have to understand one important truth -- embedded somewhere, in each act of betrayal, is the purpose of God waiting to be discovered. Without the hope of this discovery, we will be devastated by the betrayal and stop living and engaging life as God intended. God is never taken by surprise with betrayal. His plan for our lives and ministries is never derailed by betrayal. God's plan for our lives only becomes derailed when we let the effects of betrayal rule and reign in our lives.

The Betrayer and the Betrayed

There are two groups of people who are affected by betrayal--the betrayer and the betrayed. If you are the betrayer, you need to know that the sin of betrayal plans to take you somewhere. For Judas, John 13:30 tells us that betrayal took him "out into the night." Betrayal will reposition you into a dark place. The only way back into a lighted place is through confession and repentance. Confession is agreeing with God that something is sin and repentance is that shift in our thinking that produces a new direction for our life.

If you have betrayed someone and have truly repented, the moment you confessed your sin to God, you were taken out of that dark place and put back into the light. It may not feel like it though. In the natural you may have to live with the label of betrayer the rest of your life in certain circles of fellowship, but to God you have been relabeled and repositioned. Restored betrayers need to listen to God more than the words of those they have wronged. The pain of betrayal can shout loud and hurtful things at a restored betrayer. Words that flow out of hurt and sorrow are not what define us--only God defines us.

For the victims of betrayal, the spirit of vengeance that wants to attach itself to you will try to lure you into the betrayer's dark place. For the victims of betrayal there is a strong desire to see the betrayer punished. Vengeance wants a piece of someone. Hell wants to help you tailor a plan to punish your betrayer. Darkness wants to lure you into the hardness of heart where an unwillingness to forgive exists. You don't have to go there. The choice is yours to make.

What can you as a victim of betrayal do? You can bring that betrayal to Jesus and give it to Him. Let Him own it. Tell Him how much it hurts. He knows the pain of betrayal. Confess your plans of vengeance, punishment and separation. You are the only one who can make the choice about which direction your life will take. Will you follow the pain of betrayal into a dark place or will you follow the Spirit's leading into the light of God's mercy and grace? Betrayal will lead you somewhere. The choice is yours. The victory over betrayal is found in the response of the betrayed.

Surviving Betrayal with Praise

In one season of our ministry, my wife Jan and I had been terribly wronged by another believer. I remember the night we got the phone call telling us what this person was doing and saying about us publicly. We were hundreds of miles away. We felt helpless. We had entrusted this person with the lives of people we dearly loved. The words of betrayal wounded us deeply.

I remember hanging up the phone that night and taking Jan by the hand and saying, "We need to pray." We got down on our knees and began to tell God all the pain we felt in that moment. It felt like our lives were caving in on us. It felt like someone had impaled us with a poisoned spear. Our guts ached. In one of those moments of supernatural impartation God gave us one of the greatest spiritual survival gifts we had ever received. He gave us the gift of praise and blessing in the face of betrayal.

As we continued to pray, our prayers shifted into praise. We began to praise God for who He is. We thanked Him for this opportunity to trust Him in our helplessness. We thanked Jesus for this hurtful moment because it was taking us deeper into our dependence on Him. Then we began to bless our betrayer. Over the next few months more phone calls would come from confused saints about how this person continued to say horrible things about our lives and ministry. Every time we thought of our betrayer we made the choice to bless instead of curse. This went on for eight years!

I remember the night we were invited over to our betrayer's home for dinner and, after eight years, he asked for our forgiveness. With great joy I was able to look him in the eye and tell him that we forgave him eight years ago and had spent the last eight years blessing him.

How we choose to respond to the pain of betrayal will determine the direction our lives and ministries will take. Betrayal can be a beginning or it can be an end. There are many gifted and called saints who have been betrayed, but are now lying in the enemy's gutter of bitterness and it is breaking the Father's heart. God is calling both the betrayers and the betrayed out of the dark places where the pain and sorrow of betrayal has led them. He is calling people out with His voice of hope and restoration. If you have suffered through a place of betrayal, now is the time to begin to follow His voice. In the end, you will experience the same resurrection power and new life that followed the Lord in His betrayal.

Remember: Embedded somewhere, in each act of betrayal, is the purpose of God waiting to be discovered.

Garris Elkins
Living Waters Church
info@livingwatersmedford.org

Do you need help?

Life's Issues prayer counselors or available to help you send an email to: Larry Silverman
nhministry@yahoo.com  or post a reply to this message.

Or you can contact us by email here: http://www.openheaven.com/contact/



Edited by Moderator on 03/04/2008 at 8:12am
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ana ward
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Posted: 01/04/2009 at 6:55pm | IP Logged Quote ana ward

Garris,

I was moved by your words... we have all been wounded at one point or another by other believers, and it is truly God's heart to reconcile in those situaions.

We can expect unbelievers to betray us, that is their unregenerant nature. That's where preaching the gospel comes in...by extending an opportunity to be reconciled with God, we are extending His mercy.

But what about the believer who offends? Jesus taught that implementing Matthew 18:15-18 is the loving and merciful way we are to attempt to reconcile with brothers and sisters who have betrayed or offended us. I like the way the amplified version words it:

15 If your brother wrongs you, go and show him his fault, between you and him privately. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother.

16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two others, so that every word may be confirmed and upheld by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

17 If he pays no attention to them [refusing to listen and obey], tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a pagan and a tax collector. [Leviticus 19:17; Deuteronomy 19:15.] 

18 Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven. AMP

Nobody likes confrontation, but it is the believer's responsiblity to confront in situations like the one you and your wife experienced, not only for our sakes, but the for the sake of the betrayer and others who may be affected by their behavior. It is not a popular concept among believers, but it was Jesus' idea and His ways are always the best! 

Pray for, do good to, and love those who persecute us, yes, but we must also extend God's mercy to unbelievers by preaching the gospel and to wayward brothers and sisters by implementing Matt 18:15-18. Winning our brother or sister back (to the Lord) is to be our motive and meekness should be our attitude... always!

New Years blessings!

ana



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Mandy Gay
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Posted: 01/05/2009 at 2:37am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

I was pondering this very thing last night and this morning. 

Betrayal can make us hard-hearted if we let it take it's natural course.  After a betrayal its natural to put up the defences to stop it happening again.  Its natural to keep people at a distance so they don't get close enough to cause pain again.  Its natural to curl up and go into ourselves for protection. 

It got me thinking about Jesus at His crucifixion.  He could have defended Himself, or got legions of angels to remove Him from the situation, but He decided to remain and be vulnerable in the face of what was being done to Him.  He allowed Himself to remain vulnerable after being betrayed by His loved ones.  Wow! 

And we are able to do this through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  Not always immediately, because inner healing of deep wounds may be necessary first, but as this healing takes place, vulnerability becomes easier.

And, like Jesus hanging on the cross, we come to realise that the wounds, even though they appear to lead to death, cannot kill us.  Resurrectoin life follows, and with it the desire to bless those who've betrayed us. 

Love triumphs over evil.

Love Mandy

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Ann Doupont
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Posted: 01/05/2009 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

After a betrayal and trust is broken between you and the betrayer, it's not wise to consider them your friend unless true repentance has taken place on their part. Things just aren't the same in a relationship after a betrayal.

Yes, there's the need to forgive those who betray us. However, trusting them is another matter altogether.

Ann



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Posted: 01/06/2009 at 2:08am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Yes Ann this is true.  That's where prayer plays such a wonderful part.  We have the amazing gift of being able to pray into people's lives in order to bring about change.  Jesus told us to love our enemies.  Love enables us to pray the best outcome for those who've betrayed us.  And we can only pray like this if we've forgiven them.

I am really challenged by the Amplified Bible's version of 1 Corinthians 13, the bit about love being to trust.  It say's that love is always believing the best about people.  Now, in view of Jesus' command to love our enemies, how are we to do this???  More understanding needed on this for me.

I want to add that making ourselves vulnerable isn't putting our trust in a person (someone who has betrayed us), but putting our trust in our heavenly Father.  The trust is in Him to take care of us and for His will to be done, just like Jesus did at the crucifixion.

Love Mandy

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Posted: 01/06/2009 at 2:12am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

1 Corinthians 13:7 (Amp)

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

How do we do this?

 

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richard gilman
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Posted: 01/12/2009 at 8:16am | IP Logged Quote richard gilman

We need our judas to lead us to our cross, so betrayal is part of the road we take to calvary and our journey into rest.

Jesus never interacted again with judas, or did peter with annanias and saphira.. We must see a true repentance i feel... The problem we all struggle with is the quandry between guarding our heart with all dilignce, and becoming transparent.. For each individual i feel they need to ask the LORD to show them this persons heart, ask God for wisdom on how to interact with them, let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth.. The one thing i struggled with is wanting to be totally sure i have forgiven totally, then i allow the LORD to bring a freindship back if it is His will...



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Posted: 01/13/2009 at 1:43am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Hi Richard,  you said:

The one thing i struggled with is wanting to be totally sure i have forgiven totally

Yes, it has been my experience that it's taken several times of forgiveness to get to the bottom of things totally.  It hasn't been a one-off thing for me, it's been a process when the betrayal has gone deep.

Love Mandy

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Posted: 01/13/2009 at 2:21am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Sorry, no edit button to add to what I've already said, so:

Richard, you also said that we need our Judas to lead us to our cross.  I must admit that without the betrayal I have suffered I don't know whether I would be at the level of Christlikeness that I am.  I've said before that it takes us having an enemy to be able to know what loving an enemy is.  It's not something that comes easily or automatically.  As you say, it means going to the cross, and it's that that allows Christ in us to come forth.  A painful process, like child birth I guess.  But it's only then that we are able to truly love those who've betrayed us.  And from that place the Spirit in us can guide us in our prayers and actions to bring God's will about in the situation.

Love Mandy

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Posted: 01/13/2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged Quote Ann Doupont

Another thing we need to do is to forgive ourselves. I have found the need to forgive myself for having entered into a friendship with such a person who would later betray me, for not having seen in advance what they were really like, for not paying close enough attention to the things they had said along the way.

Perhaps what is also needed is the need to forgive God for having allowed this to happen. That's a biggee. Sometimes some people blame God for things. I used to do that. I've had to forgive God, even when it wasn't His fault.

On His cross, Jesus prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I've had to pray that for others. They really don't understand.

Ann



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Posted: 01/15/2009 at 1:22am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Ann,

Interesting you saying about forgiving ourselves.  After a deep betrayal by a loved one, I felt foolish for having trusted them and asked the question "Was I wrong to trust them?".  I was feeling such a heavy weight of stupidity and shame.

A wise friend, whose counsel I greatly respect, said that I was right to trust them, as to love is to trust.  It was right to love them.  It was right to trust them.  I was doing God's will, even if the other person wasn't.

This lifted all the sense of foolishness and shame off me and I was released in the knowledge that I was doing God's will.  I have realised over time that doing God's will may hurt us (very deeply) sometimes, but it cannot kill us.  In fact the experience can result in the Christ life in us coming forth even more!

Love Mandy

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jaketribble
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Posted: 01/15/2009 at 6:31am | IP Logged Quote jaketribble

Should we not do as Christ HIMself did? HE choose Judas long before HIS betrayal, knowing the end from the beginning, yet HE Loved Judas and cared for his soul, so much so that HE would confront Judas before he fulfilled God's Purpose. Resurrection and Restoration through Christ was that Purpose through which we now have the Promise of Life.
As did Christ, we must care for others before ourselves, that through what we may suffer, some may come to the the saving Knowledge of God and of HIS Christ.
We must excersize discernment,  lest we gain nothing from the Grace of a merciful God, who desires that none should perish.....
Remember: Embedded somewhere, in each act of betrayal, is the purpose of God waiting to be discovered.
We must not think ourselves better than our Lord, that HE was fully Obedient to the Purposes of God, including betrayal, despised and crucified....

For HIS Glory,
Jake
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Posted: 01/16/2009 at 1:18am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Good words Jake.

I was thinking on this yesterday.  Jesus knew what Judas would do, yet he chose to fully love him anyway.  Despite his untrustworthiness Jesus didn't withhold any love towards him.  Self-protection was never on Jesus' agenda.

Love Mandy

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Posted: 01/16/2009 at 1:46am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Thinking also on God's will for the betrayer.  His desire is for them to come through like Peter did, unlike Judas.  Peter was able to forgive himself.  Judas wasn't.  Jesus had prayed for Peter that his faith wouldn't fail.  It didn't and he came through.  We should pray like Jesus for those who need to forgive themselves and for their faith in Jesus' love to not fail them.

Love Mandy

 

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Posted: 01/16/2009 at 1:50am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

God's kind of love is patient and waits eagerly for Christ to come forth in people, always ready to believe the best of us/them. 

Believing the best of someone calls forth the Christ in them. 

 

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richard gilman
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Posted: 01/16/2009 at 6:12am | IP Logged Quote richard gilman

Mandy Gay wrote:

Thinking also on God's will for the betrayer.  His desire is for them to come through like Peter did, unlike Judas.  Peter was able to forgive himself.  Judas wasn't.  Jesus had prayed for Peter that his faith wouldn't fail.  It didn't and he came through.  We should pray like Jesus for those who need to forgive themselves and for their faith in Jesus' love to not fail them.

Love Mandy

 

Interesting, judas never repented so repenting involves self forgiveness..



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Posted: 01/17/2009 at 2:13am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Richard,

Just thinking aloud here, but it would seem so.  I mean, Jesus prayed that Peter's faith wouldn't fail.  Faith in what?  Faith in Jesus' forgiveness.  Faith in the character of Jesus that he had come to know during the 3 years he had been with him.  But receiving the love and mercy of Jesus means we must be in agreement with him, otherwise we are putting our opinion higher than God's. We have all been judged and found guilty.  But through God's mercy our sins have been forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.  Not accepting this for ourselves means we are not having faith in the facts.

It was dawning on me yesterday that the Judas experience is probably very rare indeed.  Getting things in perspective here, its unlikely that many will have experienced an actual Judas-type betrayal.  The devil had eneterd Judas, whereas it's more likely is that we've been on the receiving end of the actions of a messed-up, still relatively immature, believer.  Someone who has Christ in them, but who still has some things which need sorting so they can become more Christ-like.  Not making excuses for sin or betrayal, but there are usually reasons behind it driving us to behave in a certain way.  I don't think believers intentionally set out to sin or to cause hurt in other people's lives.  I reckon most of us do what we do because we think its the right thing at the time, not aware of the wake of devastation we're leaving behind us.  Know the feeling?  Kind of puts the temptation to point the finger in perspective, for me anyway. 

Love Mandy

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Posted: 03/24/2009 at 2:36am | IP Logged Quote Stacy McCarty

Situations I've been in where I've been betrayed the Lord has used to
teach me to forgive those who hurt me and to continuously pray for those
who've hurt me. It's been a long road but the more I turn things over to
God the more improved my strength is when it comes to forgiving and
getting over things faster. Unfortunately though I don't trust people at all
and I'm just not wanting to try and make friends with people anymore. I
always have heard that God created us for community but from what I've
experienced I don't want a part of that anymore either. I see people as a
big bucket of issues and problems and open doors for betrayal if you
open up to them personally. Is it possible to serve and love people and be
a good Christian while trusting in God alone?

A bit dramatic question I know but I'm serious in asking.

-
Stacy
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Posted: 03/24/2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Hi Stacy,

I can appreciate where you're at.  Yes, as you say, betrayal and other offences give us a wonderful opportunity to learn what it is to forgive and to love our enemies.  And the bigger the betrayal, the bigger the opportunity to learn what it is to really forgive.  Ron's latest article about PAIN is good reading in relation to this.

Yup Stacy, people are a big bucket of issues and problems and open doors for betrayal.  That is, when they are walking in the flesh.  Things are very different though when people are walking in the Spirit.  And things are very different for us when we are walking in the Spirit.  Ron refers to this in his article, where we come to the place, where things that would have floored us at one time, just don't have the same power over us any more.  Not that we don't feel, but that there is a peace in the Spirit, which somehow transcends those things which previously caused us pain.

I can relate to this to a certain degree, in that 6 members of my family have died in the last year, and yet I haven't felt sorrow at all.  Whilst other family members have been distraught, I have had an inner peace in this respect which means that sorrow hasn't touched me.  Granted, I wasn't especially close to any of them, and that will have made it a lot easier for me, but nevertheless the same principle is at play, albeit at a lower level.

I suffered a very big betrayal by a loved one 2 years ago, and, as we said earlier, it gave me a wonderful opportunity to learn what it is to really forgive and to love them in spite of their hatred for me at the time.  Whilst I have not had the opportunity to be in a close friendship with anyone since, I think that close relationships, in which we make ourselves vulnerable, are necessary for healthy growth. 

I guess the problem with making close friends is finding the people who are walking in the Spirit, to be able to be close with, as they can be few and far between.  At least if they are committed to learning to walk in the Spirit you will stand a better chance of healthy friendships.  You could ask God to connect you with someone, but they are still going to be working through some stuff, as none of us is perfect yet.   

Having said all that, I keep coming back to the following scripture and wondering whether the translation is correct, or whether I'm just missing the point. 

1 Corinthians 13:7 (Amp)

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].  (boldening mine)

In the NIV, I think it uses the word TRUST.  But whether it's trusting or believing the best, it clearly says above: EVERY PERSON.  I mean, how are we to do this?

Help???

Love Mandy

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Stacy McCarty
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Posted: 03/25/2009 at 1:50am | IP Logged Quote Stacy McCarty

Mandy,

Thanks for the reply!

I kind of laughed when you agreed with me about people. How I phrased
what I was trying to say made me sound whiny and selfish. That wasn't
my intention.

To make the picture a bit clearer I have a really good knack for picking
unhealthy people for friends. It's been this way since I was a kid and
when I look back over my life I see a pattern of my gravitation towards
certain people. I don't do it quite aware of it at the time but later after the
friendship has run it's course it's like "Oh man! I did it again!". It's also
something my family has pointed out for years. They ask me why I keep
doing this to myself ,picking these certain people, if I don't like myself or
something etc. . I have a bad habit of trusting people, or more like being
really naive,when they speak.

So now that I'm over 30 and have a nice chunk of life to reflect over I can
see this pattern and I'm tired of being a floor mop when it comes to the
people I trust and become friends with. I know people make mistakes
and I can forgive that but when I spend my time crying after spending
time with people or in agony in the hours before seeing them then I know
there's a problem.

I've prayed for years now for healthy Christian friendships but nothing
has surfaced and so I've kind of given up. Not that I want to mind you but
I'm just tired of opening myself up and getting hurt because my sense of
who people are is off/not picking up the warning signals. Does that
make sense?

I guess though I'll just have to ask the Lord to fix me so I can learn to be
a good friend and then maybe one day He'll lead me to, or lead to me,
some good Christian people who can be trusted.

Thanks Mandy!

-
Stacy
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Mandy Gay
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Posted: 03/25/2009 at 5:26am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

HI Stacy,

Yes, you are making perfect sense. 

I got to thinking more about this last night and the idea of security kept coming to mind.  When we are completely secure in Christ, then we can enter into friendships without any expectation on the other person/s.  In essence releasing them to be where they are without any fear of how they will treat us in return.  Our needs being fully met in Christ we are free to love without the fear of our needs not being met, or even the friendship being abused by the other.

Of course without this being a mutual thing then the friendship is somewhat hollow, but it nevertheless gives us the opportunity to show love.  A bit like Jesus talking about inviting people to the feast who will have no way of repaying the gesture I guess.

As for me I seem to have been in a time of this security in Christ being established, without the added complication of close relationships.  Whether that will change, time will tell, but I do have a feeling it will.

Love Mandy

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Vince Tran
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Posted: 12/28/2009 at 5:53am | IP Logged Quote Vince Tran

Mandy Gay wrote:

Hi Stacy,

I can appreciate where you're at.  Yes, as you say, betrayal and other offences give us a wonderful opportunity to learn what it is to forgive and to love our enemies.  And the bigger the betrayal, the bigger the opportunity to learn what it is to really forgive.  Ron's latest article about PAIN is good reading in relation to this.

Yup Stacy, people are a big bucket of issues and problems and open doors for betrayal.  That is, when they are walking in the flesh.  Things are very different though when people are walking in the Spirit.  And things are very different for us when we are walking in the Spirit.  Ron refers to this in his article, where we come to the place, where things that would have floored us at one time, just don't have the same power over us any more.  Not that we don't feel, but that there is a peace in the Spirit, which somehow transcends those things which previously caused us pain.

I can relate to this to a certain degree, in that 6 members of my family have died in the last year, and yet I haven't felt sorrow at all.  Whilst other family members have been distraught, I have had an inner peace in this respect which means that sorrow hasn't touched me.  Granted, I wasn't especially close to any of them, and that will have made it a lot easier for me, but nevertheless the same principle is at play, albeit at a lower level.

I suffered a very big betrayal by a loved one 2 years ago, and, as we said earlier, it gave me a wonderful opportunity to learn what it is to really forgive and to love them in spite of their hatred for me at the time.  Whilst I have not had the opportunity to be in a close friendship with anyone since, I think that close relationships, in which we make ourselves vulnerable, are necessary for healthy growth. 

I guess the problem with making close friends is finding the people who are walking in the Spirit, to be able to be close with, as they can be few and far between.  At least if they are committed to learning to walk in the Spirit you will stand a better chance of healthy friendships.  You could ask God to connect you with someone, but they are still going to be working through some stuff, as none of us is perfect yet.   

Having said all that, I keep coming back to the following scripture and wondering whether the translation is correct, or whether I'm just missing the point. 

1 Corinthians 13:7 (Amp)

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].  (boldening mine)

In the NIV, I think it uses the word TRUST.  But whether it's trusting or believing the best, it clearly says above: EVERY PERSON.  I mean, how are we to do this?

Help???

Love Mandy

Hi Mandy,

Im new to this site, but having gone through one betrayal to another with the same person, i have look for help and found you guys. Having read what you guys have said earlier i have realized alot of things. Many thanks .

Here i will tried to share my thoughts with you for i have learn from your thoughts and experience.

1 Corinthians 13:7 (Amp)

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].  (boldening mine)

This 1 corinthians 13:7 (Amp)

Is true and correct in everyway, here are my thoughts:

When some make a mistake by you they are merely learning from their experiences, for parent to a child perspective "you should put them right -meaning put them in their place so that they learn, another analogy is that we are all here to learn, we all have issues to deal with and to overcome. A spiritual being always seek betterment. So they seek forgiveness, truth, peace and beauty. In a sense i feel that we are all innocent children  learning by mistake with out the intent to hurt others intentionally for we lack the wisdom and understanding to comprehend our very action. So we should "always ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]."

Our hopes for our fellowmen should be fadeless under all circumstances and it endures everything. "For that is LOVE and COMPASSION, love and compassion goes hands in hands".

Hope this is of help.

Love

Vince Tran





Edited by Vince Tran on 12/28/2009 at 6:15am
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Mandy Gay
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Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:34am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Hi Vince,

Welcome to OpenHeaven and thank you for your comments.  There is one thing in particular that jumps out at me and that is:

You said:

A spiritual being always seek betterment. So they seek forgiveness, truth, peace and beauty.

It's not these people I was asking in relation to though... this is not the definition of every person.  I was asking in relation to those who are clearly not seeking betterment.  Are we to believe the best of them?   I can believe that the Lord's intention is best for them and that He is working away on their behalf... but as for their intention???

It has just dawned on me that it actually says to always be ready to believe the best of every person.  This does put a different emphasis on the verse... poising us on the precipice of expectation in relation to the Lord's moving in their hearts.

Blessings,

Mandy

P.S.  A hint:  If you use a quote again, start your writing after the final QUOTE] in order for your text to be separate from the quoted portion :-)



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Vince Tran
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Posted: 01/01/2010 at 1:50am | IP Logged Quote Vince Tran

Hi Mandy,
How was your new year? sorry been a bit busy couldnt reply sooner.
"For those who are clearly not seeking betterment. Are we to believe the best of them?"
Yes we are to believe in the best of them and always.
Let me give you an example. Say an adult who has grown from a violent unloving family. That adult is a spiritual being who seek betterment and loves by it natures. But not knowing better. They sometimes commits crimes and violents ranging from  joining a gang to forming a gang so they could feel loved and at peace with.- This is an example of family foundation. This very FOUNDATION is so huge that it form the basis for society and the civilization that we live in.  Family is the foundation for the society that we live in. I have seen far too many of this scenarios, that it breaks my heart when i see these adults who commits crimes because they dont know better. But when they fully mature they sometimes come to realized what a void in their heart that they have had to carry around. So they turns to gods, and become a reborn.
When i see these kids i look at them with love and compassion because i know they are learning from making mistakes and i try to talk to them with reasons, show them loves, take care of them as much as i can for they are temporarily lost.
Here is the good part , Since "Love bears up under anything and everything that comes" with perseverence I gradually changed them and fill the void in their heart with what love i have to give, but the ultimate love is to know god.

I hope this help.
Here is a gift for you, a proverb which has helped me a lot in my realization.
"We dont see things as they are ,we see them as who we are"

Love
Vince Tran
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Posted: 01/01/2010 at 3:47am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Hi Vince,

Yes, the New Year is going well for me, thank you :-).

I am not really feeling led by the Lord to enter a discussion on this at this time... so I will just say that I suppose my problem has been in reconciling the following scriptures... and leave it there for now.

1 Corinthians 13:6,7 (NIV) 

6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

...with:

John 2:24,25 (Amp)

24But Jesus [for His part] did not trust Himself to them, because He knew all [men];  25And He did not need anyone to bear witness concerning man [needed no evidence from anyone about men], for He Himself knew what was in human nature. [He could read men's hearts.] [I Sam. 16:7.]

Blessings,

Mandy



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Posted: 01/01/2010 at 3:53am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Just to add that I do not feel led to have an intellectual discussion on anything nowadays... and I've given up trying to figure things out... I only go where the Lord leads me and only say what I feel led to say... life is so much simpler this way :-)

With love,

Mandy



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Posted: 01/01/2010 at 3:55am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

That should have read... I only want to go...

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Posted: 01/02/2010 at 2:02am | IP Logged Quote Vince Tran

Hi Mandy,

That is ok i understand, the example i gave you is a part of my own life experience so i know how troubled kids feel, that is all.So i feel for them.

Love,
Vince
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Posted: 01/02/2010 at 3:45am | IP Logged Quote Mandy Gay

Hi Vince,

Ah yes, experience is a big eye opener.  This is how the Lord has worked greatly in my life too. 

I no longer sweat the stuff I don't understand... I just trust that the Lord will work it in me and give me the understanding when He wants to.  This goes for the stuff I see in me that I don't like the look of too... I just entrust it to Him to sort out.  I just get in the way if I try and sort it out LOL!

Blessings to you,

Love, Mandy



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